Stock air filter back on....

[krooozn]

In keeping with my other post about the backfiring, popping, etc.....I decided after doing more reading and research on the problem to take the K&N air filter off the bike and replace it with an OEM filter. This decision was made do to everything I read about the K&N filter said the same thing.....it said that with a k&N filter you would need to rejet the carbs to allow for the increased air flow....so I put the OEM back on and it definitely seems to be helping, but now it smells like the bike might be running a little too rich. The pilot screws are set at 2 1/4 turns out which is the factory setting, I am wondering if I should try turning them in a little, maybe around 2 turns out to see if it makes a difference. I wasn't smelling the gas/rich odor before the filter replacement, so now I am thinking since the OEM is back on the bike, that the fuel/air mixture is a little too rich. So would turning the pilots in to say 2 turns out, would that decrease the amount of fuel that is being mixed with the air. I am not quite sure just how all of this works, but feel that it would help to decrease the fuel and therefore help with the richness that I am smelling.:Shrug:

I know you guys are getting tired of me and my rambling about the same issue....but I am trying to figure this out on my own...but I do have an appointment to take the trike in later this month. I also am in the process of getting an OEM exhaust to have on hand if I decide to take the drag pipes off....just not sure yet if I want to sacrifice the sound....

Thanx so much for bearing with me on my ramblings!:Bow Down:

Anita epper:

 

[3W-lonerider]

yes..turning your pilots in to 2 turns from 2 and 1/4 would deffinatly decrease the rich mixture.

 

[jim peacock]

Before you do any thing else put the stock exhaust back on.
One of the biggest mistakes a lot of people make with all honda motor cycles is they want to change the exhaust to get a diffrent sound this is a definet NO NO,what they forget is honda tunes there bikes for the mufflers thats on them,it is not just the fuel system,but the timing and compression ratio and the cams and every thing.
I use to work part time at a place that sold honda motor cycles and I do not know how many times I saw people come in and complian about their bike not running right.First thing we ask them have you messed with the exhaust over ninty per cent said yes.
HONDAS ARE NOT HARLEYS LEAVE THE EXHAUST ALONE PERIOD.
:no::no::no::no:

 

[Ol' Grey]

It's often possible to run a more free flowing air cleaner or a more free flowing exhaust......one or the other......and not have to re-jet. If one does both, more free flowing intake and exhaust, then yes, a re-jet is normally a must-do.

Are you still getting the backfiring/popping ? If so, with the K&N and the drag pipes, you might be needing both a re-jet and "possibly" need to attend to the air cut-off valves as was discussed earlier.

With the stock air cleaner back on, as 3W-lonerider mentioned, with the more restrictive air intake, it also requires less fuel in the air/fuel mix so you're spot on about turning the pilot screws in a bit.

If you like the sound of the drag pipes, you should keep 'em and since you're taking it into a shop soon, you might also consider putting the K&N back on at that time so the shop can dial it in for both the free flowing a/c and exhaust......just a thought :yes:

 

[Ol' Grey]

Before you do any thing else put the stock exhaust back on.
One of the biggest mistakes a lot of people make with all honda motor cycles is they want to change the exhaust to get a diffrent sound this is a definet NO NO,what they forget is honda tunes there bikes for the mufflers thats on them,it is not just the fuel system,but the timing and compression ratio and the cams and every thing.
I use to work part time at a place that sold honda motor cycles and I do not know how many times I saw people come in and complian about their bike not running right.First thing we ask them have you messed with the exhaust over ninty per cent said yes.
HONDAS ARE NOT HARLEYS LEAVE THE EXHAUST ALONE PERIOD.
:no::no::no::no:

I respectfully disagree........Yes, Honda tunes their bikes for the stock exhaust that's on them, but.......so does every other manufacturer of every other make/model. Some makes have more aftermarket support than others, but alterations in intake and exhaust can be done as long as one is willing to re-jet as needed to dial it all in and once done, they have a better breathing machine with added performance and more HP.

 

[krooozn]

I wish I had the stock exhaust to put back on to see if that fixes the problem, but I don't have it.....the bike came to me with the drag pipes installed and the K&N.....It has definitely helped with the popping and backfiring by putting the OEM filter back on the bike....and I do realize that the shadows are notorious for doing a certain amount of backfiring on their own, even with stock pipes.....I do like the sound of the drag pipes and would prefer to keep them on, but I want my bike to run well also....and like I stated earlier, now with the OEM filter on, it does seem to be running on the rich side, meaning that I am smelling gas fumes while it is running and right after shutting her down...so that tells me that the air/fuel mixture is a little too rich now that the airflow has been restricted by the OEM filter. I was thinking that maybe if I dialed the pilots back to 2 turns out instead of 2 1/4 turns that it would be just enough to stop the bike from running on the rich side. But then I saw the other post about the timing, etc and got scared to try adjusting the air/fuel.....so can someone tell me if I am hurting anything by giving this adjustment a try? If it doesn't help I can always put it back to the factory settings.....

Thanx for all the help....especially you Ol' Grey.....you absolutely rock!:woohoo:

epper:Anitaepper:

 

[Ol' Grey]

Only trying to help and I most definitely flub it now and again....I give YOU credit for tackling this and keeping after it :wtg:

You needn't worry about trying to lean out the mixture by turning the adjustment screws for the pilot jets. It'll either work or it won't (more on this below) and you can always turn them back if need be. People can alter intake and exhaust without having to change timing and the timing on some newer bikes are pre-set by the factory, meaning that there's no adjustment available without going deeper into the engine. Changes to intake/exhaust might be considered moderate modifications with only re-jetting necessary. Then there's more heavily modified bikes with altered intake/exhaust, higher compression pistons, hotter cams, higher volume oil pumps, etc.

In looking at the picture now, a few things come to mind:

Whoever changed the intake and exhaust might have also re-jetted and maybe it's the air cut-off valves that aren't working properly, which might be causing the backfiring/popping......OR...."if" it has already been re-jetted for the K&N and drag pipes, it's a question of whether or not you'll be able to get the needed adjustment from the mixture screws with the OEM air cleaner back on there. Same/same if you put the OEM exhaust back on. It could then be a matter of being jetted too "fat" (rich) from the previous intake/exhaust mods.

Whether you decide to go back to the stock intake/exhaust or run with the K&N and drags, the question remains as to what jetting is currently in there and are the air cut-off valves working properly.........The shop would read the jet #'s and know if they're stock or not and they'd also be able to test the air cut-off valves........Either way, you'll get it sorted out. One step at a time to ultimate success and then you can do your "Happy Dance" again......epper:epper:epper:........LOL!

 

[krooozn]

I sure wish that I could get this sorted out without dumping a ton of money and time into it...but it looks like it's gonna be something that is beyond my capabilities and in keeping with that thought....the only local bike shop in my immediate area without me having to drive 35 to 50 miles has one mechanic....he is a retired gentleman....and when I went down to the shop a week or so ago to talk with them about this problem...I told him what you and I had discussed about the air cut-off valves and he looked at me and said the "what?" and this is the point where my warm, fuzzy left the building....I am scared that he will get in there and not have a freakin' clue as to what to do.....as this is primarily a Harley shop.....but he has several older metric bikes of his own.....none of which evidently have this cut-off valve! Anyway....I got a number today of someone who does bike work on the side out of his garage at home....and he came highly recommended by a friend who uses him.....so maybe I'll give him a call and see what he has to say.....I can live with a certain amount of backfiring as long as I know that it isn't harming the engine...that is my biggest concern here.

I appreciate your kind words on my tenacity.....I have always loved anything that has a motor and moves......and I am constantly trying to learn all that I can about whatever it is that I may have as a toy.....but when it comes to the carburetion of the thing....well.....I am at a real loss. So that is why I keep after these gremlins....figure sooner or later I'm going to find the culprit and then I can get a priest in to perform an exorcism on the damn thing!

Thanx again Ol' Grey for sticking with me.....sure wish you lived closer!

Anita:blahblah:

ps....I'm certain that my happy dance is on it's way!ray:

 

[Ol' Grey]

I understand your dilemma.....Shop work can get expensive and one always HOPES that they've found a knowledgeable and reputable shop. Personally, I'd rather invest in several workshop manuals.....OEM, Clymer's, Haynes, etc. and do the work myself. If you have the patience and take your time, you can save $$$ while at the same time learn more about your bike, which is a huge plus in itself. Others will bite the bullet and pay the shop to get everything right and then the bike owner can keep it running right from there. It's really your call.

You're right in that not all carbs have the air cut-off valves. Can't hurt to call the second guy and see if he's familiar with them as you try to make your decision. Best case scenario would be that the air cut-off valves only need cleaning to get them working again. Worst case scenario would be if there's a torn diaphragm which would require buying a complete "set" of parts that aren't cheap.

If you could remove the float bowls without having to remove the carbs from the bike, you could then unscrew the jets and read the jet #'s that are stamped on the jets. This would tell you whether or not it's been re-jetted and what you're working with. But I also know that many Japanese bikes with dual carbs on a V-Twin configuration engine seem to tuck the carbs in there with a shoehorn! Again, patience would be the key. Also, if you removed the carbs (definitely with at least one good manual on hand) you could both check out the jet #'s as well as the condition of the air cut-off valves.

I'd consider "some" popping to be relatively normal on some bikes and something one could live with, but backfiring points to something that needs attention. If you think about it, if Honda sold brand new Shadows off the showroom floor and the bikes were backfiring, that wouldn't be normal and they'd have customers lining up with complaints, LOL!

You've got the right attitude in wanting to learn as much as you can and you've already displayed the willingness and ability to turn your own wrenches, which is admirable. There's a lot to be said about self-reliance. You may be at a loss in regards to carbueration only because you haven't tried working on them in depth before. It isn't rocket science, but it IS a matter of what level of wrenching you feel comfortable with attempting.

For the sake of example, if you saw the jet #'s, then you'd know if they were stock jets or if the bike's already been re-jetted. If they were stock, you could consider doing the carb work and putting the OEM a/c and exhaust back on. Or you might decide to tackle the re-jet and go with the K&N and drag pipes. Or if you found that it's already been re-jetted, you'd be that much closer and could run the K&N and drags. As someone mentioned in the other thread, with you having a smooth power band, it would seem as tho' the re-jet has already been done. Maybe it simply needs the jets cleaned and the air cut-off valves checked out.

It's really something you have to decide for yourself........shop or DIY......either way, your choice is respected here and I know you'll get it running right one way or the other..........