'Splain something to me...

[consitter]

The other day in a thread I can't find now, somebody said that cruising the highway at less than 70mph should be in 5th gear. They said that better fuel mileage would result.

My brain is having a hard time wrapping around this. To me, especially at speeds of 55 and higher, 6th gear would make for less fuel consumption, due to lower RPM generated by the engine.

Help me understand this, because it surely confuses me, and goes against everything I've ever been told my entire life.

 

[DblTrbl]

I posted that I tried riding in 4th gear (my bike's 5th gear is Overdrive). The manual calls for being in 5th gear @ 35mph which I had been doing most of the time. Numerous folks on here as well as the owner of the shop I bought the bike from said to only use 5th gear when at highway speeds.
It also goes against everything I have ever heard. I tried it and my first two takes of gas I had improved mileage. So, now I'm trying to ride in 4th gear as much as possible. I tried riding the freeway in 4th however once I hit 60mph or higher, I get a sound I'm not comfortable with so I shift to 5th and all is well.

 

[msocko3]

The other day in a thread I can't find now, somebody said that cruising the highway at less than 70mph should be in 5th gear. They said that better fuel mileage would result.

My brain is having a hard time wrapping around this. To me, especially at speeds of 55 and higher, 6th gear would make for less fuel consumption, due to lower RPM generated by the engine.

Help me understand this, because it surely confuses me, and goes against everything I've ever been told my entire life.

Some folks think lower RPM equals better fuel mileage, it does and it doesn't. There is more than one variable which comes into play. An engine has a sweet spot, its the place where your in the peak of your torque. On a stock Harley Twin cam its in the 3,000 - 3,500 rpm range, this sweet spot is where the engine will get its best fuel economy. If your in 6th gear at 60 mph you think you would be getting the best economy, you are actually using more fuel to maintain that speed in 6th gear. It will take more throttle opening to keep it at 60 mph in 6th gear. On a 2011 and later Triglide I wouldn't put it into 6th gear until 65 mph, anything below that will result in more fuel consumption.

Sometime while riding try something, try an accelerate from 55 - 60 mph in 6th gear. Then do the same while in 5th gear, you'll notice how much snappier the acceleration will be in 5th vs 6th. Essentially you're on the edge of lugging the engine at 55 - 60 mph in 6th gear. Take the test a little farther, check fuel mileage while running 55 - 60 mph in 6th gear.

 

[consitter]

Some folks think lower RPM equals better fuel mileage, it does and it doesn't. There is more than one variable which comes into play. An engine has a sweet spot, its the place where your in the peak of your torque. On a stock Harley Twin cam its in the 3,000 - 3,500 rpm range, this sweet spot is where the engine will get its best fuel economy. If your in 6th gear at 60 mph you think you would be getting the best economy, you are actually using more fuel to maintain that speed in 6th gear. It will take more throttle opening to keep it at 60 mph in 6th gear. On a 2011 and later Triglide I wouldn't put it into 6th gear until 65 mph, anything below that will result in more fuel consumption.

Sometime while riding try something, try an accelerate from 55 - 60 mph in 6th gear. Then do the same while in 5th gear, you'll notice how much snappier the acceleration will be in 5th vs 6th. Essentially you're on the edge of lugging the engine at 55 - 60 mph in 6th gear. Take the test a little farther, check fuel mileage while running 55 - 60 mph in 6th gear.

Thank you. This helps a lot. Somebody I talked just a few minutes ago said almost to the word everything you just said.

 

[bikerbillone]

Most interesting, like to see something on this from the GW perspective. Maybe my thinking on this has been wrong as well.

 

[Larry Sobczak]

Splain something to me

Very interesting response from msocko3. I will be riding today, will have to test this, but it makes sense, anytime your not in the right gear your gas mileage will suffer due to the lack of power.

 

[GARYD]

Years ago my dealers service manager told me the same thing. I thought he was nuts - still do - but then msocko comes along and "Splains" it. So I guess I'll have to give it a try. I usually go into 6 around 55/60. Still mystifies me.

Wish I was going on a long trip so I could compare it.

 

[HDB0B]

I've got hills here in PA. Going up I am in the right gear for power .... going down I am in the right gear for engine braking.

As a pilot ..... planes have best cruise speeds for fuel consumption, best speed for climb out (most altitude gained per ground mile covered). I totally agree that there is an rpm at which you make the most power, one for the most torque, and one for the best gas mileage.

Bob orag:

 

[Trent]

I think that this milage thing sometimes gets over thunk. Myself,, I just ride and run in whatever gear and speed feels right via my very comfortable after market Mustang butt sensor, and gets me the most fun and joy of ridin'.
Is 2 or 3 more miles to the gallon really that big of a deal that we need to concentrate on being at the perfect rpm and comparable speed instead of just relaxing and enjoying the ride? Not to me. Just go zoom and run at whatever rpm and speed feels good and gets you to where ya wanna go. There are puuhhlenty of gas stations everywhere and saving MAYBE 50 cents on a tank of gas should not be noticed by anyone ridin' a Trike costing $40K... or way more.
MPG is not worth the sensory effort to stew about in my walnut sized brain,, UNLESS it gets so low that something is obviously wrong.
Ok... Commence the flaming !! Ha ha!!

 

[rhino 2]

I think that this milage thing sometimes gets over thunk. Myself,, I just ride and run in whatever gear and speed feels right via my very comfortable after market Mustang butt sensor, and gets me the most fun and joy of ridin'.
Is 2 or 3 more miles to the gallon really that big of a deal that we need to concentrate on being at the perfect rpm and comparable speed instead of just relaxing and enjoying the ride? Not to me. Just go zoom and run at whatever rpm and speed feels good and gets you to where ya wanna go. There are puuhhlenty of gas stations everywhere and saving MAYBE 50 cents on a tank of gas should not be noticed by anyone ridin' a Trike costing $40K... or way more.
MPG is not worth the sensory effort to stew about in my walnut sized brain,, UNLESS it gets so low that something is obviously wrong.
Ok... Commence the flaming !! Ha ha!!

:Agree: .. I ride my Trike like i ride all my bikes and cars.....By feel.. You'll know whats the right gear to be in at any given speed, In just a short time.. And that in turn will give you the best mileage and performance .. One size doesn't fit all.. Besides Gas is a dollar and a half a gal cheaper than a short while ago.......Sowhatareyouallworredabout.....

 

[GoSlo]

I think that this milage thing sometimes gets over thunk. Myself,, I just ride and run in whatever gear and speed feels right via my very comfortable after market Mustang butt sensor, and gets me the most fun and joy of ridin'.
Is 2 or 3 more miles to the gallon really that big of a deal that we need to concentrate on being at the perfect rpm and comparable speed instead of just relaxing and enjoying the ride? Not to me. Just go zoom and run at whatever rpm and speed feels good and gets you to where ya wanna go. There are puuhhlenty of gas stations everywhere and saving MAYBE 50 cents on a tank of gas should not be noticed by anyone ridin' a Trike costing $40K... or way more.
MPG is not worth the sensory effort to stew about in my walnut sized brain,, UNLESS it gets so low that something is obviously wrong.
Ok... Commence the flaming !! Ha ha!!

I agree with you...sort of. Living/riding out west here, there's plenty of places where gas stations are NOT plentiful. They can be pretty far apart and a couple more miles per gallon can mean the difference of getting stuck and making it to the gas station. So while I do my best to just ride and enjoy everything, mileage is something that I keep in the back of my mind. Guess that's why I keep a gas can in the trunk on trips when those nasty headwinds can make all the difference in the world.

 

[Steve on 3]

AS usual Msocko3 has given excellent information. In my personal experience I had to try the 6th gear vs 5th gear climb and fuel used. I had to twist my wrist more to maintain the same speed at a higher gear than at a lower gear. It works. One of the folks with a power vision with instant fuel consumption readings could confirm everything too.

As for the question concerning the gold wings, it would work on any bike or car

Ride safe

Steve

 

[Trent]

Well,,, I am out west also.. and even as remote as parts of Idaho, Nevada, & Oregon can be, there is always gas within reach.. Just plan ahead and gas up earlier if you need to. I dunno about you, but I don't ride on dirt roads! If there is pavement... there is gas. Nevada is the most remote state in the country, but there is gas within 125 miles of wherever you go. Been all over the western United States on some amazingly remote highways, and never needed a gas can. But I reckon it wouldn't hurt to have one if it helps you relax and have piece of mind to enjoy your ride.!!

 

[msocko3]

Most interesting, like to see something on this from the GW perspective. Maybe my thinking on this has been wrong as well.

I don't see as drastic of a difference in mileage with the Wing. I ride mine almost the same as I did the Harley, the engine just feels better when 5th gear which is OD on a Wing is used above 60 mph. At 60 or less it just has a funny feeling buzz about the engine which tells me it doesn't like it.

 

[GARYD]

I agree about the mpg discussion, but if my memory serves me, my service manager mentioned something about it being "harder" on the engine going that slow in 6th gear. That's just what I heard - I'm not a mechanic so I believed him.

If I cared about mpg, I'd ride at 45 mpg all the time.....or buy a Vespa.

 

[clint44]

How many times have you actually had to use the aux fuel tank,Fuzz? How hard would it be transferring fuel from it to your main tank?
If you're placing it in the bottom of the trunk,that means it's laying flat on its side,right? No worries about leaks?

- - - Updated - - -

I agree about the mpg discussion, but if my memory serves me, my service manager mentioned something about it being "harder" on the engine going that slow in 6th gear. That's just what I heard - I'm not a mechanic so I believed him.

If I cared about mpg, I'd ride at 45 mpg all the time.....or buy a Vespa.

I do care about fuel mileage,Gary. If I thought a Harley trike would only get 22mpg consistently,I would not have converted our Street Glide.
Our Boss Hoss averaged around 15-20mpg and that was one of the things I didn't like about it.

 

[Trent]

We are talking about Tri Glide's though.. Not Boss Hosses!!!! no comparison at all...!!

 

[clint44]

We are talking about Tri Glide's though.. Not Boss Hosses!!!! no comparison at all...!!

Some have mentioned getting 22mpg,Trent. That is a valid comparison and concern. You said that we shouldn't concern ourselves with 2-3mpg and I agree. However,I'm seeing ranges from 22-37mpg. That's a little more than the 2 or 3 you mentioned.

Staying on topic,I normally turn on the cruise at 60-65mph or higher. Your TG is geared even shorter than our SG.

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

There are a few other variables that come into play with overall fuel mileage:

Acceleration

Total weight of the trike

Terrain your riding

Fuel quality

and last but not least...... state of tune of your engine

I can tell you that raising my final drive ratio to 30 front tooth pulley and a 70 rear tooth pulley raised my average fuel mileage 3mpg. This also happens to be on a trike with a mildy built 124" engine. As MSOCKO has explained keeping the rpms in the 3000-3500 range will keep your engine in that sweet spot to gain you the best fuel mileage

 

[Sunman]

On my Freewheeler I try to never run below 2,500 RPM in 6th gear and only do that when on nice flat ground without a headwind. At 2,500 RPM it takes more throttle to maintain speed than running 2,800 to 3,000 RPMs in 5th gear because the engine has to work harder in 6th gear at that low RPM to maintain speed. Also, I don't want to lug the engine. Not only does it effect GPM but it is hard on the lower end (crank and rod bearings specifically). I seem to get the best mileage running 3,000 to 3,300 RPMs.

Sunman

 

[Trent]

I ride all over the West solo & 2up, up and down mountain passes, twisty curves, deserts, sand storms, in rain, snow, brutal headwinds and cross winds, and believe me, I function as a very effective wind catcher, and I just don't see these issues. Never seen the need to carry extra gas and rest assured I ride ballz out in as remote areas out here as any place else, or more. Ridden across Central Nevada lately? Every time I fill up, my proven very accurate miles remaining is 180 to 190, sometimes higher, but never lower. Like I mentioned,, who cares about a 2 or 3 mile variable,, or maybe even 5... but if you are getting 22, then something out of the ordinary is causing that. Head wind? I dunno... Does a full blown stage 4 make that much of a difference? My stage 4 is not working hard at all at 85 to 90+ mph. Maybe that is the difference?
The simple point a few of us are trying to make is, anyone who has spent some time on here or does some back thread research will know that the average appears to be 28 to 38 mpg. If your TG is getting anywhere above 28, just ride and have fun and don't sweat that 2 to 5 mile variance. If you are getting 22, something is wrong, or maybe just different due to the Trike mechanicals, or maybe our big fat a$$e$$!:laugh: . You get whatever you get, and if you are happy with it, great. If not, then mess with it I guess. But it will not be identical to any one else. Gas milage is like fingerprints. None are the same.

 

[geezerglide11441]

I ride all over the West solo & 2up, up and down mountain passes, twisty curves, deserts, sand storms, in rain, snow, brutal headwinds and cross winds, and believe me, I function as a very effective wind catcher, and I just don't see these issues. Never seen the need to carry extra gas and rest assured I ride ballz out in as remote areas out here as any place else, or more. Ridden across Central Nevada lately? Every time I fill up, my proven very accurate miles remaining is 180 to 190, sometimes higher, but never lower. Like I mentioned,, who cares about a 2 or 3 mile variable,, or maybe even 5... but if you are getting 22, then something out of the ordinary is causing that. Head wind? I dunno... Does a full blown stage 4 make that much of a difference? My stage 4 is not working hard at all at 85 to 90+ mph. Maybe that is the difference?
The simple point a few of us are trying to make is, anyone who has spent some time on here or does some back thread research will know that the average appears to be 28 to 38 mpg. If your TG is getting anywhere above 28, just ride and have fun and don't sweat that 2 to 5 mile variance. If you are getting 22, something is wrong, or maybe just different due to the Trike mechanicals, or maybe our big fat a$$e$$!:laugh: . You get whatever you get, and if you are happy with it, great. If not, then mess with it I guess. But it will not be identical to any one else. Gas milage is like fingerprints. None are the same.

:Agree:

Roger

 

[DblTrbl]

LOL.....wow...this thread got hot quickly...LOL

Lots of opinions... that's what the thread is for.

I'm not really worried about 2-5 mpg more however, what I save in fuel, I can spend on accessories...........It all works out in the end.:xzqxz:

 

[consitter]

LOL.....wow...this thread got hot quickly...LOL

Lots of opinions... that's what the thread is for.

I'm not really worried about 2-5 mpg more however, what I save in fuel, I can spend on accessories...........It all works out in the end.:xzqxz:

Yeah, looks like I created an animal. I like all the different stuff people are saying as well. And truthfully, I'm not that worried about the MPGs either. BUT, I don't want to be riding around on a trike getting 20 mpg, if you know what I mean.

 

[msocko3]

On my Freewheeler I try to never run below 2,500 RPM in 6th gear and only do that when on nice flat ground without a headwind. At 2,500 RPM it takes more throttle to maintain speed than running 2,800 to 3,000 RPMs in 5th gear because the engine has to work harder in 6th gear at that low RPM to maintain speed. Also, I don't want to lug the engine. Not only does it effect GPM but it is hard on the lower end (crank and rod bearings specifically). I seem to get the best mileage running 3,000 to 3,300 RPMs.

Sunman

You are correct, lugging the engine beats the tar out of the bottom end. Not only is it hard on bearings, it isn't the best for the crank. When Harley 1st come out with the 96" engine in 07 they had quite a few shifted cranks. With the 07's still being cable throttle there was little control HD had on someone stodging along in 6th gear lugging away, then twisting the throttle to climb a hill or just plain accelerate. The fix for the cranks was two fold, one was introducing throttle by wire and the other was increasing the pressing pressure on the crank. With throttle by wire Harley can control how quick it opens when someone twist the throttle. The incidents of failed cranks did drop with the introduction of these 2 things in 2008.

 

[Larry Sobczak]

There is only one reason I worry about gas mileage and my Tri Glide, under what conditions can I get to the next gas stop. Not that crazy about walking down some back road or interstate looking for gas.

 

[Trent]

Yeah, looks like I created an animal. I like all the different stuff people are saying as well. And truthfully, I'm not that worried about the MPGs either. BUT, I don't want to be riding around on a trike getting 20 mpg, if you know what I mean.

Oh,, this thread is very mild compared to where this subject has taken us previously! Ha ha!! All in good fun and debate till someone gets their girly-man feelings hurt or changes the subject.

I am reasonably sure you are not getting 20 mpg on that sweet new TG, and of course nobody here wants you to be at that number either. But since it is new, and I assume running very nice and how you want it to run, just go zoom and don't sweat the milage. If my antique 2011 is running according to the expectations of my quite accurate Mustang posterior sensor, and I can go at least 150 miles through any variable conditions before I run out of gas, then I am a happy primate.

And... being fully aware of the HD prices $$$$$ to add useless shiney chromey crap and other unnecessary junk to these things, {not that I would know of course}, holding back from some ballz out fun and throttle twisting to save less than a dollar per fill-up will take a lotta fill-ups to buy even the cheapest add on:laugh:!

That's Trent's tip of the day ThumbUp

 

[GARYD]

How many times have you actually had to use the aux fuel tank,Fuzz? How hard would it be transferring fuel from it to your main tank?
If you're placing it in the bottom of the trunk,that means it's laying flat on its side,right? No worries about leaks?


I almost ran out of gas once - I did run out of gas once - (my fault). Now on long trips I started to carry 2) 20 oz. MSR fuel containers. I also seal them in a vacuum sealed bag(food vacuum sealer) just in case. Even if I didn't need to use one, it is also available for other stranded riders.

They are completely leak proof (made for fuel)and don't take up much room in the trunk.

It's better to have them and not need them then not have them and need them. Life is so simple.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[clint44]

I almost ran out of gas once - I did run out of gas once - (my fault). Now on long trips I started to carry 2) 20 oz. MSR fuel containers. I also seal them in a vacuum sealed bag(food vacuum sealer) just in case. Even if I didn't need to use one, it is also available for other stranded riders.

They are completely leak proof (made for fuel)and don't take up much room in the trunk.

It's better to have them and not need them then not have them and need them. Life is so simple.

I'm thinking about buying one of Roto Pax's aux fuel cans,for some cross country trips we plan to do. Our trunk is pretty spacious and their one or two gallon containers are shaped just right to fit snugly in a corner.
Thanks for the idea,Fuzzie!