Rocker Lockers Install vs. Cylinder Position

[keikat2]

Hi, I am thinking about installing a set of Rocker Lockers to reduce the "ticking sound" created by the cylinder head's support plate bolts. To install the Rocker Lockers, I notice the instructions indicate "the cam must be on the base circle so that neither valve is open or under pressure". In order to achieve "base circle" prior to unbolting each cylinder's rocker support plate, it is my understanding the selected front or rear cylinder will be at its uppermost stroke point? If so, can I "jack-up" my trike's rear wheels, place the transmission in 6th gear, remove the spark plugs, place an appropriate length wooden dowel in the FRONT cylinder spark plug hole to rest on the cylinder head, turn the left rear wheel while the right wheel is in a locked position, and watch the wooden dowel to reach its uppermost point before descending. Then repeat the aforementioned steps for the rear cylinder prior to installing its Rocker Lockers. I will be looking forward to your comments and any added recommendations to achieve "base circle" for each cylinder. Thank you, Allen S.

 

[k-dog]

allen when i did mine i took both rocker covers off. watched push rod go down .checked other push rods to see if they wood turn in fingers. as for rear wheels i left one on the floor with the other raised. in 6th gear plugs removed.

 

[Jack Klarich]

As long as you confirm the cylinder you are first working on is @ the base circle on the cam you will be good to go, give Enuff time for the lifters to fully bleed down, be sure to follow all torque sequences , ( make sure to unbolt the support plates in the correct sequence also) this will insure for no distortion.

 

[keikat2]

Thank you K-DOG for your response.

So if I understand you correctly, when I remove both cylinder head covers, I will be able to view the front and rear cylinders' pushrods resting position. Next, I would turn the rear raised wheel until the front cylinder's pushrods are all the way down. Then, for the front cylinder, the cam would then be at "base circle" and neither valve would be open or under pressure. At that point, I could remove the front cylinder's rocker support plate, install the rocker lockers, and reinstall the front cylinder's rocker support plate. I would be finished with the front cylinder, then perform the same above processes for the rear cylinder, and finish by installing both cylinder head covers. Is that correct?

Thank you,

Allen S.

 

[keikat2]

Hi Jack, Thank you for your response.

I understand for each cylinder you are working on at the time installing the rockers lockers, the cam must be at "base circle" for that cylinder. In turn, am I correct in my assumption that if you remove both front/rear spark plugs, a wooden dowel can be inserted into one of the cylinder's spark plug hole, you are working on, and that cylinder's head would raise the wooden dowel to its highest or uppermost stroke point by turning the rear raised left wheel with the rear right wheel on the ground? Once that cylinder would be at its highest stroke point, then the cam would be at "base circle" for that cylinder. If my assumption is correct, then all I would need to do is repeat the same above process for the other cylinder? I will be looking forward to your response. Thank you, Allen S.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Hi Jack, Thank you for your response.

I understand for each cylinder you are working on at the time installing the rockers lockers, the cam must be at "base circle" for that cylinder. In turn, am I correct in my assumption that if you remove both front/rear spark plugs, a wooden dowel can be inserted into one of the cylinder's spark plug hole, you are working on, and that cylinder's head would raise the wooden dowel to its highest or uppermost stroke point by turning the rear raised left wheel with the rear right wheel on the ground? Once that cylinder would be at its highest stroke point, then the cam would be at "base circle" for that cylinder. If my assumption is correct, then all I would need to do is repeat the same above process for the other cylinder? I will be looking forward to your response. Thank you, Allen S.

Yes, you can confirm that by watching the push-rods movements

 

[Jack Klarich]

Are you replacing the O ring on the support plate and updating the breather valves as you are already in there?

 

[keikat2]

Jack, I was just planning on installing just the rocker lockers to get rid of some of the "sewing machine" sound. However, is there a rocker support plate maintenance kit that should be installed, replacing the old parts with new parts, while the front/rear cylinder support plates are removed?

Also, at what exact position should each cylinders pushrods be when the cam is at "base circle" for each cylinder?

Allen S.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Jack, I was just planning on installing just the rocker lockers to get rid of some of the "sewing machine" sound. However, is there a rocker support plate maintenance kit that should be installed, replacing the old parts with new parts, while the front/rear cylinder support plates are removed?

Also, at what exact position should each cylinders pushrods be when the cam is at "base circle" for each cylinder?

Allen S.

The kit you have should have the O ring for the support plate. If it does use it. Both your push rods on the cylinder you are working on should both be about the same length, Look where the rocker arm strikes the valve before disassembly, there should be no binding on the springs, rocker arms in up ( no tension on valves)

 

[k-dog]

allen i dont know if cam was on bottom circle or not ,i just watched to make sure both push rods were down. then make sure you can twist then with your fingers. this worked for me . watched vidioes on you tube to help.

 

[keikat2]

Jack,

Regarding the 103CI Twin Cooled engine, does finding the selected cylinder's "top dead center" result in, also, achieving "base circle" for the cam? Also, YES, I am going to order two(2) Harley Breather Assembly kits and install them at the same time I am installing the Rocker Lockers with the included Support Plate O-Rings.

Allen S.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Jack,

Regarding the 103CI Twin Cooled engine, does finding the selected cylinder's "top dead center" result in, also, achieving "base circle" for the cam? Also, YES, I am going to order two(2) Harley Breather Assembly kits and install them at the same time I am installing the Rocker Lockers with the included Support Plate O-Rings.

Allen S.

Yes it does with all HD Twins, the breather kits are a new and improved part number

 

[RKplus10]

Allen, both David and Jack said to verify that the valves are shut at TDC. If you ONLY check TDC, you could be on the exhaust stroke with the exhaust valve open. Hope I am not adding to the confusion.

 

[RKplus10]

Jack, did I state that clearly and correctly?

 

[Jack Klarich]

Allen, both David and Jack said to verify that the valves are shut at TDC. If you ONLY check TDC, you could be on the exhaust stroke with the exhaust valve open. Hope I am not adding to the confusion.

That is why I would prefer to watch the push-rods, much the same as adjusting adjustable push-rods

 

[Jack Klarich]

Jack, did I state that clearly and correctly?

Yes, depending on what cylinder you are looking at , if you are watching what the opposite cylinders push rods are doing you will know for sure what stroke you are on

 

[keikat2]

Thank you for your responses. To find "top dead center", my plans are to remove both spark plugs, place my thumb over the cylinder's spark hole I plan to install the Rocker Lockers into the rocker support plate, at that time, and have my Wife turn the one raised rear wheel until that cylinder's piston quits applying "upward pressure" onto my thumb. Then, using a flash light to view inside the spark plug hole, I will attempt to observe the cylinder reach its highest stroke point and the momentary delay before it starts downward. Hopefully, at that point, I am thinking the cam will be at "base circle" for that cylinder. Am I correct?

Also, after research, I see there are after-market companies (IE: Fueling, Doughtry, Vulcan, etc...) selling "supposed" upgraded Breather Assembly kits manufactured from aluminum billet material in the price range of $100 plus to almost $200. Is there any reason their Breather Assembly kits perform any better than Harley's $20 kit?

Thank you,

Allen S.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Thank you for your responses. To find "top dead center", my plans are to remove both spark plugs, place my thumb over the cylinder's spark hole I plan to install the Rocker Lockers into the rocker support plate, at that time, and have my Wife turn the one raised rear wheel until that cylinder's piston quits applying "upward pressure" onto my thumb. Then, using a flash light to view inside the spark plug hole, I will attempt to observe the cylinder reach its highest stroke point and the momentary delay before it starts downward. Hopefully, at that point, I am thinking the cam will be at "base circle" for that cylinder. Am I correct?

Also, after research, I see there are after-market companies (IE: Fueling, Doughtry, Vulcan, etc...) selling "supposed" upgraded Breather Assembly kits manufactured from aluminum billet material in the price range of $100 plus to almost $200. Is there any reason their Breather Assembly kits perform any better than Harley's $20 kit?

Thank you,

Allen S.

Allen, try this i is pretty simple

Rotate the engine. Watch the intake valve open (pushrod goes up) and then close (pushrod goes down). Continue rotating slowly until the cylinder's piston reaches top dead center (TDC). The cylinder that you're adjusting will now have both its tappets on the base circle of their camshaft lobes. This is the lowest point in the tappet blocks for the tappets. Notice: Valve is on its seat and fully closed.

As far as aftermarket breathers, they are probably better and have better tolerances but not needed unless you are racing and run high RPM a lot IMO

 

[keikat2]

Jack, From reading about 4-stroke engines and trying to educate myself, there are four stroke positions of the cylinder. The first is the intake downward stroke with the intake valve open and the exhaust valve closed bringing in air & fuel to the cylinder. The second is the compression upward stroke where both intake/exhaust valves are fully closed at TDC burning the air/fuel created by the spark plug's spark. The third is the power downward stroke still with the intake valve closed and the exhaust valve beginning to open as the cylinder starts to reach bottom. The fourth is the exhaust upward stroke with the intake valve beginning to open and the exhaust valve fully open to expel the burnt air/gases. Then the process starts all over again.

Now, if my understanding is correct, the only time both the intake and exhaust valves are fully closed is during the compression stoke at TDC. In turn, at this time, it would be the only time that both cylinders' pushrods would be at the same height with no tension or pressure on the selected cylinder's rocker arms and springs as viewed inside the selected cylinder's support plate you are wanting to remove and install the rocker lockers. Please let me know if this sounds correct?

Also, in addition to the new Harley Breather Assembly kits and O-rings, I will be installing new rocker cover gaskets, as well, just in case one of the old rocker cover gaskets gets "dinged" or scrapped. From what I have read, the same rocker cover gasket works for both front and rear rocker covers. However, the gasket will have "front" or "rear" cylinder imprinted on the top side of the gasket to indicate its proper placement.

Thank you,

Allen S.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Watch this animation for a better understanding of how the strokes of a HD VTwin work, and yes observe the markings of the orientation of the gaskets



You can stop the video to see the relation of valves @ TDC for each cylinder

 

[Jack Klarich]

Jack, From reading about 4-stroke engines and trying to educate myself, there are four stroke positions of the cylinder. The first is the intake downward stroke with the intake valve open and the exhaust valve closed bringing in air & fuel to the cylinder. The second is the compression upward stroke where both intake/exhaust valves are fully closed at TDC burning the air/fuel created by the spark plug's spark. The third is the power downward stroke still with the intake valve closed and the exhaust valve beginning to open as the cylinder starts to reach bottom. The fourth is the exhaust upward stroke with the intake valve beginning to open and the exhaust valve fully open to expel the burnt air/gases. Then the process starts all over again.

Now, if my understanding is correct, the only time both the intake and exhaust valves are fully closed is during the compression stoke at TDC. In turn, at this time, it would be the only time that both cylinders' pushrods would be at the same height with no tension or pressure on the selected cylinder's rocker arms and springs as viewed inside the selected cylinder's support plate you are wanting to remove and install the rocker lockers. Please let me know if this sounds correct?

Also, in addition to the new Harley Breather Assembly kits and O-rings, I will be installing new rocker cover gaskets, as well, just in case one of the old rocker cover gaskets gets "dinged" or scrapped. From what I have read, the same rocker cover gasket works for both front and rear rocker covers. However, the gasket will have "front" or "rear" cylinder imprinted on the top side of the gasket to indicate its proper placement.

Thank you,

Allen S.

Yes your statements and understandings are correct. The main thing to understand about HD engines is they share a common crank shaft connection to the connecting rods. This is the direct relationship to the piston travel in both cylinders. It is pretty confusing until you see it all in motion

 

[keikat2]

Jack, Thank you for sending me the animation workings of the Harley engine. Observing the animation, it appears a cylinder's push rods, rocker arms, springs, and valves are all in a non-tension resting position beginning at the bottom of the cylinder's intake stroke moving upward to the compression stroke all the way down to the bottom of the power stroke. In turn, if I am correct, it appears the selected cylinder's rocker support plate could be removed at any point during this movement of the cylinder. Am I correct?

Thank you,

Allen S.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Jack, Thank you for sending me the animation workings of the Harley engine. Observing the animation, it appears a cylinder's push rods, rocker arms, springs, and valves are all in a non-tension resting position beginning at the bottom of the cylinder's intake stroke moving upward to the compression stroke all the way down to the bottom of the power stroke. In turn, if I am correct, it appears the selected cylinder's rocker support plate could be removed at any point during this movement of the cylinder. Am I correct?

Thank you,

Allen S.

Yes, the intake and exhaust should both be fully closed as the piston for that cylinder is ready to move up the compression stroke

 

[Jack Klarich]

Have a look here you can see the lift area of the cam and the base where the valve closes