Oh them big flat rear tires

[the paparazzi]

My wife and I received our trike in May of this year and after 1,200 miles or so of local trips we decided it was time to take a little longer journey to the northern part of our country, so in September off we went.

Soon in our travels it started to rain, we never thought to much of it, we have had to ride in the wet stuff several times before on two wheels. So we donned the rain gear and continued our journey, being cautious of course for obvious reasons. When ascending a slight grade and in forth gear, (we were pulling our trailer) and moving in a straight line doing about I would guess 50 MPH. A little water was moving across the road and all of a sudden the RPM's shot up and I of course knew the rear wheels left the pavement and was HYDROPLANING I immediately turned down the accelerator and picked up traction again, it happen again a few days later under similar circumstances..

The funny part is if we were on two wheels I know I would have been traveling about the same speed maybe even a little more (in a straight line)..So I have learned when traveling on a trike in the wet stuff you really are walking or eggs or is it riding on broken eggs. With the minimal amount of weight in the rear or our trikes and with them fat, flat tires they do make handling a tad squirrely.......Just thought I would share this rectum tightening experience..
"The Paparzzi"

 

[Peter A.]

Interesting, have never experienced that on my 2010, what tires are you
running and how is the tread?
:Coffee:

 

[the paparazzi]

My trike is a Yamaha Royal Star it came with the stock tries that Hannigan uses Kumho radial tires 195/55R16 and I had the prssure set at 25 to 26 PSI which is recommended, and as I indicated not over 1,200 or 1,300 miles on'em. There NEW.. There has got to be a hole bunch of these on the market for trikes.. I personaly don't think its the trires I kinda think its the nature of the beast...

"The Paparazzi"

 

[jaxbobg]

Haven't heard that one. I have ridden through some tropical downpours and heavy rains in the mountains and have rarely experienced hydroplaning. Seems my Toyota car is more prone to hydroplane than my BMW/Hannigan trike. I'm running Michelins and my total weight, one up, is about 1200 lbs when packed for a few days on the road.

Most trike riders maintain 20 to 22 psi in the rear tires for best performance (even the TriGlides). I have heard that the 25-26 psi recommendation is based on past lawsuits about underinflated tires on cars and therefore no tire manufacturer will recommend a lower pressure.

Quoting from Lehman on this issue "The most commonly used tire on the rear axle of a Lehman Trike is the P205/70R15. As a point of interest, in the 1999 T&RA reference book it lists a load carrying capacity of 1146 lbs for a standard P205/70R15 tire with 20 psi of air pressure."

 

[Shimpy]

I've heard of many cases of hydroplaning. It stands to reason, two wide car tires on the rear with little weight over them as compared to a car. I had a pickup truck that would always hydroplane for the same reason, no weight in the rear and I eventually totaled it hydroplaning. You are not going to hydroplane on just a wet road, there has to be standing waterl. A lot depends on the tire tread and road surface. A very smooth asphalt I would think would contribute to it.

 

[Gold Rush]

I guess there is something to be said good about living and riding in rainless West Texas!!!

Seriously, I'm surprised. Hydroplaning does happen but not that often reported. Especially with 55 Series tires. Those are the narrowest I have ever heard of run on a trike... Could just be the nature of the beast.

Glad you found that little secret out without incident.

 

[1800 06 Champion Trike]

It has happened a few times to me in the rain.
One time was crossing through the median on the interstate in a construction zone and another was going under a overpass where the water had formed.
Since then, I take it easy in the rain.
Rear tires at 24#
Both of those times I had my cargo trailer hook to the trike.

 

[cooltech]

Be careful out there. I haven't been caught in a storm yet, but then, I'm new to triking and try to avoid the rain. Guess when I have more confidence and a long trip it will happen.
Having 235-60-15 Cooper tires installed this week. (If they arive by tomorrow), and a Kendra K673 for the front.
cooltech

 

[Veritas44]

28 psi (rear) is optimal for the HMS Royal Star Venture.
Hydroplaning is not a "normal" occurrence on a Trike and is not "The Nature of the Beast". It can always be traced and attributed to vehicle Condition and/or (in most cases) Operational issues.

 

[Deadeye]

My last gl1800 Hannigan hydroplaned easier than I thought it should. It came with Khumo tires. Took them off, put on Michelin Hydro-Edge and hydroplaning all but disappeared. I now have a 2010 gl1800 Hannigan with the same Khumo tires and the hydroplaning problem is back. Bought the trike in April with a new trike kit-now has 11,000 and tires look new but they are coming off anyway to be replaced with Michelins.

 

[mhgoldwing]

Hydroplaning is simply a physics equation: upward force (water building up under tire) overcoming downward force (gross weight of tire with load) as measured in pounds per square inch. The larger the tire, given a fixed weight, the less pounds per square inch it takes to lift the tire off the road.

All trikes are subject to this hydroplaning as we simply do not have enough weight per square inch to keep the tires planted if running through deep water.

Contributing factors include total weight on tires, tire surface area, and type of tread. Tread pattern is factor because some tread patterns are much better at dispersing the water so it doesn't build up under tire. Most trike mfg. therefore use an "open" tread design with large water channels to disperse the water in an effort to minimize hydroplaning. YMMV.

 

[Veritas44]

mh: +1 and well put ThumbUp

Trikes do require their own unique practices as well as more caution and due diligence in operation under certain conditions. Nothing to be Fearful of,,, just Aware and Attentive.
We can "make" a Trike (or any vehicle for that matter) hydroplane. Roll/Turn-Over. Skid. etc. The key is to be attentive and aware so we do not (usually by accident/error) cause, by imprudent input, the unit to "behave" poorly.
Knowledge + Experience = Wisdom. Time, patience and a healthy dose of Prudence will bring many safe and enjoyable miles/km and smiles.
The "good" news regarding Trikes and their weight/mass, they are also quicker and easier to "recover" and correct when behaving badly due to less momentum being achieved.

Deadeye,
Spot on regarding the HydroEdge superiority countering the possibility of Hydroplaning or any Wet-Condition issues. THAT is specifically what it is designed to do.

However, in achieving that superiority it compromises in other areas. The Eagle F1 & GT (like the Gator-Backs of old) are awesome in Performance & Handling. Downside, they are awful in wet conditions and longevity is thrown out the window. The BF Goodrich All Terrain T/A's are tops on my Wrangler for what I want them to do. But, they are not that good on wet pavement (as the HydroEdge is), ride comfortably and quietly (as does a Michelin LTX), and definitely don't last like I would prefer. Point is, it all comes down to what We as Individuals desire and prefer as well as place our priorities on. Whether it's tires, trikes, cager, or whatever.
The Trike Manufacturers have to choose and supply tires that will accomplish and satisfy the majority of Clients, in the majority of situations, for the majority of conditions, as is humanly possible given the constraints of supply.
Ideal?-No. Close as it can get?-as close to Yes as possible.

 

[87Trike1200]

I guess there is something to be said good about living and riding in rainless West Texas!!!

Seriously, I'm surprised. Hydroplaning does happen but not that often reported. Especially with 55 Series tires. Those are the narrowest I have ever heard of run on a trike... Could just be the nature of the beast.

Glad you found that little secret out without incident.

Help me out here... on the tire referenced in this thread, a 195/55R16, the 55 is the ratio of height to width (aspect ratio) and the 195 is a measure of the relative width of the tire. As I understand it, 195 to 225 are quite common widths for trike tires, but the difference in tire width is "only" 1.18 inches (225-195 divided by 25.4). That is the overall width, not the tread width (which is probably slightly less).

I suspect a well designed tread pattern could most helpful in reducing hydroplaning, but ultimately, greatly reduced speed while going through standing water is the best "insurance". IMHO

 

[the paparazzi]

My original post was to point out the safety issue of riding in the rain, but also some what comparing my then bike to my now trike, as I said I would have been more than likely going the same speed and perhaps a little more on two wheels.

It is obvious that there are lot a of variables with the issue.. Pulling properly loaded (trailers), different tread patterns, tires, road surface and so on, it was even been pointed out about "operational issues" I'll sure agree to that some people can't even....well I won't go there, but I'll still call it the "the nature of the beast" and I'll treat it as such. It has happen to others and I'm satisfied to see I'm not the lone cowboy here....I'll leave it at that.......... You'all take care. Ride safe especially in the sloppy stuff..

"The Paparazzi"

 

[oneup]

was your trailer rear heavy when loaded?
i tas tempted by this as rear end clearance on the trike over curbs and speed humps isnt good. but loading the rear more heavily causes less weight on the back tyres and thus more prone to aquaplane

 

[DakotaTG]

The 55 is the aspect ratio of width to height. So a 195/55 will be wider than a 195/70. Even if it figures out to being only 3/4 of an inch difference in width that makes a big difference in the weight per square inch on the ground. The contact pattern of the wider tire will have less weight per square inch on the ground than the narrower one thus making it easier to hydroplane. Of course the tread pattern can make a big difference as well. I have heard from others that Khumo tires have a tendancy to hydroplane but I don't know from personnal experience. It might be only a certain one and not all of their different types.

2011 Merlot and Black TG

 

[the paparazzi]

Yes Oneup the trailer was loaded properly.. Been towing all kinds, type and shapes and sizes of trailers for over 50 years, If I were to guess I would say that I have well over 50,000 miles pulling trailers. The trailer I was towing with the trike was a Aluma trailer, and in my opinion it tows like a dream. Been pulling it for about 10 years now..

"The Paparazzi"

 

[Rosy]

Here is a hint I use:
I go to Tire Rack and dial in the tires I have and see how they are rated for different driving conditions, rain, snow, and ware.
They rate all their tires and have not been disappointed by heir results. That's how I bought my Michelins for the trike. I ended up with the Primacy MXV4, for my GL 1800 Hannigan. I have plowed water at times in gully washers rain and haven't had a problem.
Good luck!

Regards,

Rosy
From NH

 

[87Trike1200]

The 55 is the aspect ratio of width to height. So a 195/55 will be wider than a 195/70. Even if it figures out to being only 3/4 of an inch difference in width that makes a big difference in the weight per square inch on the ground. The contact pattern of the wider tire will have less weight per square inch on the ground than the narrower one thus making it easier to hydroplane. Of course the tread pattern can make a big difference as well. I have heard from others that Khumo tires have a tendancy to hydroplane but I don't know from personnal experience. It might be only a certain one and not all of their different types.

2011 Merlot and Black TG

Please understand that I'm not trying to start a "war" over tire sizes. I don't believe what you have stated is mathematically correct. As you indicate, the aspect ration is the ratio of height to width. When the "section width" stays the same (195), the only thing that changes going from a 195/55 to a 195/70 is the sidewall height.

If the section width changed, it wouldn't be a 195.

HERE is an example of a 195/50 vs 195/55 vs 195/70. Note that the section width stays the same and only the sidewall height changes.

If for some reason this link doesn't work with the numbers already plugged in, HERE is the link to the "basic" program where you can fill in any numbers you choose.

I agree with your analysis of weight per square inch on the ground, but that will only change when going from 195 to 205 to 215, etc.

Finally, here is a BRIEF article regarding "hydroplaning" which I found interesting and informative.

I hope this is helpful - and, please, I'm not trying to be argumentative.

 

[DakotaTG]

I do stand corrected. I didn't have my brain fully engaged this morning.:vxtyaq: I agree that the 195 width remains the same across the 50, 55, 60, 65 and 70 sizes and the sidewall changes in heigth. It really boils down to the tread pattern making a difference with hydroplaning. Some tires are just better at wet conditions than others. That's one of the reasons I also pay attention to the ratings in Tire Rack. Years ago in the 70's I had a Plymouth (remember that brand) Cuda that had the Goodyear GT Polyglas tires on it and even on a wet road surface and not raining they would lose traction but on dry they were pretty good.

2011 Merlot and Black TG

 

[ea81slush]

Ok. Firstly ALL of your comments are helpful to trikers out there for them to be aware of what can happen. Love how you guys really get into the topic.

My VW based trike is no different in that planing has been such a dangerous problem as soon as there are puddles ahead of me I slow right down.

My thoughts have been along the lines that the tread doesnt allow the quantity of water to be extracted from the tires quick enough and the light weight is a big factor.

Thanks for bringing the subject up. It has always worried me. I run 295/50R15 on the rear and a 600-16 hot rod tire on the front. In the past the front was a Michelin motorcycle tire with much less tread and more prone to planing than the deeper treaded hotty.

For whats it worth.

 

[tbear]

If we ran 75 series tires in the back, they would be the closes size as the front. Wish I had the money to experiment to see if the ride and problems we have doing this would tell us what to expect. I know back in the hotrod days, we would use the skinny front tires when drag racing and it always made the car alittle squilley. Just a thought....

 

[alwrmcusn]

On the way to STAR days in Harrisburg while riding north in the heavy rain on the BRP, I found that my trike could get a very noticeable squirm on occasion!!

 

[saab9k]

The wider the tire, the more hydro planing. Compare to flat bottom alu boat.
Taller tire get a better solid grip.
Military uses tall narrow wheels.

 

[Tin Man 2]

I see that this is an old thread but I will still put in my 2 cents worth. Wide tires with a low load weight will easily hydro plane, just a fact. That being true there is a BIG difference in manufactures tread and compound. I once put a set of PepBoy fat tires on my short box Chevy pickup, big mistake. The truck was flat out unsafe in rain!! Now I'm a fruggel guy but I did pull off the tires and put on a set of factory take offs, vamoosh, no more problems. The moral of the story is the Brand of the tire makes a BIG difference!!

 

[3rdwheel]

My wife and I received our trike in May of this year and after 1,200 miles or so of local trips we decided it was time to take a little longer journey to the northern part of our country, so in September off we went.

Soon in our travels it started to rain, we never thought to much of it, we have had to ride in the wet stuff several times before on two wheels. So we donned the rain gear and continued our journey, being cautious of course for obvious reasons. When ascending a slight grade and in forth gear, (we were pulling our trailer) and moving in a straight line doing about I would guess 50 MPH. A little water was moving across the road and all of a sudden the RPM's shot up and I of course knew the rear wheels left the pavement and was HYDROPLANING I immediately turned down the accelerator and picked up traction again, it happen again a few days later under similar circumstances..

The funny part is if we were on two wheels I know I would have been traveling about the same speed maybe even a little more (in a straight line)..So I have learned when traveling on a trike in the wet stuff you really are walking or eggs or is it riding on broken eggs. With the minimal amount of weight in the rear or our trikes and with them fat, flat tires they do make handling a tad squirrely.......Just thought I would share this rectum tightening experience..
"The Paparzzi"

I had the exactly the same experience you had while in Glacier National Park. My trike is a Harley/Hannigan and had the Kumho tires, and while pulling a trailer too. Pretty scary but I think in my case the trailer actually helped keep me from spinning clear around. I wasn't going too fast because it was raining real hard and it was dark. My wife was also on the back and she could feel it - I didn't need to tell her it happened!


Since then I have changed out those worthless tires (they wore out way too fast), to Michelins. I've not had a repeat experience but haven't ridden in that much rain again either.

 

[rhino 2]

In the right conditions All Vehicles will Hydroplane.... Some faster than others...Standing water is your enemy... Your friend in the hydroplane war is your right hand......Better tires will help, Unless with better tires you'll just drive faster, Into that standing water up ahead..:Shrug:

 

[CrystalPistol]

Any moving tire will hydroplane when it encounters more water than it can channel away from the tread and the road. Many things affect "when" that happens. Vehicle speed, roadway surface, how much water, tire tread depth and design, weight pressing on that contact patch, & tire inflation all play a part. Fat tires with shallow tread on light vehicles in heavy water on smooth surfaces at high speed are among the first to do it.

I've had it happen in my police car at speed ....but I expected it might happen and when it did, I backed off if I recovered .... which I did as here I am. Police cars do have good tires, but they are not always new tires and sometimes you have to go .... so I always paid attention to my tires and their condition.

Back in the early '70s when I was a teenaged driver, I had a '69 VW Bug and for a time, had wheel adapters on the rear with some 14" GM wheels and worn/ borrowed Sonic Maxima G60-14 tires. One night I was putting along at 45-50 mph coming into Lynchburg on Rt 29 and all of a sudden, I was looking out the far right side of the windshield at the road as the Bug was pointed about 45 degrees to the left and even that Bug's RPMs increased. Scarry! I recovered though, and soon had a different set up, going to some slightly wider Bug wheels with some European radials .....

Seiberling or something?

Car handled better too!

Our '97 GL1500 Lehman GTL was built in 1998 and then Lehman shipped with 7" X 15" ASA wheels shod with Dunlop GT Qualifiers in size 245/60R15 size ..... they were "fat". In 2005 I became concerned about hydroplaning as they were starting to look worn .... and soon I replaced them with some 215/70R15 Lemans SR tires that were 4 pounds lighter each and a full inch narrower in the tread and installed them ..... adding 1/2" spacers with longer studs to get the asthetics back right.

2010 .... early summer ..... group ride .....

and we found a down poor. I was really being careful, taking it easy, watching for high water ....

negotiated several "riverlets" crossing the road .... and then coming out of Staunton on Rt 11 through a slight dip ..... and without warning RPMs went up and rear of trike scooted left. "Wife Unit" did not utter another word until we got home except for one short "WOW"!

I recovered ...... < ...... again.

I'm also looking for some nice looking 215/70-15 rubber again as what's on the Trike are half worn now. They don't make the Lemans SR anymore, and they looked so good on the Trike. Might go with B F Goodrich Radial T/As though.