New fix for oil transfer

[MDO]

If your Freewheeler has a cable clutch they for the most part are not having problems

The Bearing doors on hydraulic models are different

Jack, I thought all Freewheelers had the hydraulic clutch?

 

[Jack Klarich]

Jack, I thought all Freewheelers had the hydraulic clutch?

They do but they shouldn't

 

[MDO]

They do but they shouldn't

I must be the only 1 in the free world that likes the HD "slip/assist" clutch.

I like the fact that if I downshift a bit to soon, it helps me out a little.

On a personal note, your letter will go out Monday.:clapping:

 

[Jack Klarich]

I must be the only 1 in the free world that likes the HD "slip/assist" clutch.

I like the fact that if I downshift a bit to soon, it helps me out a little.

On a personal note, your letter will go out Monday.:clapping:

Cool Thanks,

I like the slipper clutch, I just wish it was adjustable

I have figured a way to make it adjustable tho it would surely end a warranty

 

[MDO]

I got this off the HD tech talk forum, Jack please evaluate.

They say Baker has a fix for the oil migration problem. Jack & others, can you please read & respond, as I'm not a tranny tech.

1. Baker firmly believes that their Hydraulic Side Cover design solves the M8 fluid transfer problem

2. The M8 Hydraulic Side Cover is in Production, but not available to order yet. The covers are in final machining and still need to be chromed. Expect them to be available to order in about a month.

3. The specs on the Baker website for the 06-17 Hydraulic Cover are for the Twin Cam Cover -- not the M8.

4. The Piston size in the Stock H-D M8 and new M8 Baker Hydraulic Cover are the same size and slightly smaller than on the Twin Cam (don't know why H-D reduced the piston size for the M8).

5. The big difference between the H-D cover and the Baker cover is that the H-D cover has a piston stop as part of the casting. The stop limits the piston travel so it can't be pushed out of the bore, however this stop extends beyond the piston and literally surrounds the nut on the tranny door -- this creates a pocket that limits the movement of tranny fluid which gets pressurized and pushed past the clutch rod every time the clutch is actuated. The Baker design doesn't have a piston stop -- the piston could theoretically be pushed out of the bore, but in reality is limited by the clutch rod travel, and finally it would hit the tranny nut before leaving the bore. In other words the Baker design leaves the Tranny nut completely unshrouded.

I also found this:

Looking at the 2019 parts book, they have changed the secondary actuator (37200131B) , and added the oil deflector (36300026), to all models with hydraulic clutches - so I guess that is their "fix".

 

[MDO]

I also found this on the same forum & if true, this explains why some have the problem & some don't .

Apparently, HD was using multiple vendors for the same part & no one caught the differences.

I think I see whats going on with the oil transfer issue. A friend and I took off the tranny cover on a 2018 with this issue. What we saw was a huge size hole in the output shaft for the pushrod to go through. Don't see how tranny oil couldn't transfer. On others that I have taken apart the output shaft hole was a few thousands [ 10K's or less, guessing ] bigger then the pushrod. On this output shaft the hole was about 1/4 bigger then the pushrod. With some bikes doing it and some don't, I would think HD has more then one suppler for this part and this issue was not caught in the QC Dept.. The fix for this issue from HD is a sleeve type button that just pushes into the end of the output shaft to take up space, simple fix.

 

[Jack Klarich]

I think the Baker cover is going to fix this problem

I said it before, the HD tranny cover traps the fluid, It has 1 way to go and that is down the pushrod thru the hollow shaft

The Baker cover uses a different actuator piston less the machined stop that HD uses

This should clear the fluid to pass back down below the gears like it should

As far as the HD fix with the plastic button in the end of the push rod= another Epic failure on about all the bikes reported using it

OOOPS, Michael, HD should have known better with such a large hole ( the main shaft has always housed the push rod with out transfer) and using an inferior IMO size pushrod

HD blaming vendors ? Would not be surprised however the HD R and D department knew their set up would fail IMO Why does the MOCO outsmart itself all the time

The 6 speed is a very good tranny, leave it alone JMO

 

[MDO]

If they were using different vendors & the output shaft holes in the pushrods are different, that would explain why some do it & some don't.

I agree with you on the 6 speed tranny, it's very nice.

 

[Jack Klarich]

If they were using different vendors & the output shaft holes in the pushrods are different, that would explain why some do it & some don't.

I agree with you on the 6 speed tranny, it's very nice.

I think you are onto something here

It would not surprise me with the vendors, once again you would think with the bikes HD has fixed @ dealerships they would check the mainshafts for sizing differences

I guess we are over thinking this one and should be glad ours are not doing the transfer YET Yes the 6 speed is a good unit, before it we were happy with a 5 speed

 

[MDO]

I think you are onto something here

It would not surprise me with the vendors, once again you would think with the bikes HD has fixed @ dealerships they would check the mainshafts for sizing differences

I guess we are over thinking this one and should be glad ours are not doing the transfer YET Yes the 6 speed is a good unit, before it we were happy with a 5 speed

I can cruise in 5th. all day, but that 6th./overdrive is nice!

 

[Jack Klarich]

I can cruise in 5th. all day, but that 6th./overdrive is nice!

I have played with shifting a lot with this M8

I have found I can shift to 6th gear @ 48mph

Keep the RPM over 1750 The knock sensors will keep the timing where ut should be so as not to lug or damage the engine

Do not try this with an older Harley

 

[AdvenJack]

On another forum some guys in Germany stumbled onto this fix, but after more miles it too is an epic failure

As of July 2021, have the Greg Williams - MACOMB COUNTY CHOPPERS push rods been proven to fail regarding the oil migration issue?

https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=macomb county choppers

Or, are these GW-MCC rods an effective answer? Thank you!

 

[Jack Klarich]

As of July 2021, have the Greg Williams - MACOMB COUNTY CHOPPERS push rods been proven to fail regarding the oil migration issue?

https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=macomb county choppers

Or, are these GW-MCC rods an effective answer? Thank you!

Some have had luck with the pushrods, the HD fix venting the primary is by far the better fix to date

 

[rhino 2]

Some have had luck with the pushrods, the HD fix venting the primary is by far the better fix to date

It seems the New venting works, But Harley either doesn't know why some migrated and most didn't...Or their not saying why...

 

[Jack Klarich]

It seems the New venting works, But Harley either doesn't know why some migrated and most didn't...Or their not saying why...

Harley IMO new these would migrate but kept it quiet hoping many would not put enuff hard miles on to know

 

[Trampas]

I'm thinking of getting the Greg Williams pushrod just in case my starts migrating, so far mine hasn't but I don't have a slug of miles on bike either. As far as pushrod goes some says it worked for them and some said not. As far as the harley fix I have read some had it done and it still does it and the one poster said he had the harley fix plus the pushrod and still does, luck of draw I guess, could be why harley went back to a regular clutch cable, not sure but I think everyone thinks that because of the migrating issues.

All for now Trampas

 

[rhino 2]

Harley IMO new these would migrate but kept it quiet hoping many would not put enuff hard miles on to know

When I had the problem of migrating 2017 Triglide I had a direct line to Harley(The number was given to me and strict confidentiality) in York Pennsylvania and off the record they told me just keep on bringing it back The dealer will repair it under warranty and I said every 800 to 1000 miles I got a bring it in he said most people don’t put that much on it it in a year so if they change the oil once a year They will never know it was Migrating but you didn’t hear this from us… and after a few more complaints they put me on the do not call list :AKA’ when I mention my name they hung up..

 

[Jack Klarich]

When I had the problem of migrating 2017 Triglide I had a direct line to Harley(The number was given to me and strict confidentiality) in York Pennsylvania and off the record they told me just keep on bringing it back The dealer will repair it under warranty and I said every 800 to 1000 miles I got a bring it in he said most people don’t put that much on it it in a year so if they change the oil once a year They will never know it was Migrating but you didn’t hear this from us… and after a few more complaints they put me on the do not call list :AKA’ when I mention my name they hung up..

Ask yourself what did HD do to cause this problem in the first place?

It will lead you to the hydraulic clutch slave cylinder. The space it occupies leaves nowhere for tranny fluid to run down past the gears so it gets pumped down the clutch rod. HMMMM, pretty simple fix if HD wanted to. I also believe the tranny vent is NOT big enuff, causing the pressures to be higher on the primary side, this could cause a vacuum signal IMO

WE never had a problem like this until the hydraulic clutch reared its ugly head as far back as 2014

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

Ask yourself what did HD do to cause this problem in the first place?

It will lead you to the hydraulic clutch slave cylinder. The space it occupies leaves nowhere for tranny fluid to run down past the gears so it gets pumped down the clutch rod. HMMMM, pretty simple fix if HD wanted to. I also believe the tranny vent is NOT big enuff, causing the pressures to be higher on the primary side, this could cause a vacuum signal IMO

WE never had a problem like this until the hydraulic clutch reared its ugly head as far back as 2014

Here is some food for thought,without saying what I ended up doing to get Harley to install the primary vent in my 17. they sent a tech from Harley to my dealer when they did the install,and he told the dealership tech to install a new crank seal which he happened to bring with him.

 

[DK Custom Products]

Had no transfer on my 2014 Twin Cam. Had transfer on my 2018 M8.

Did the fix below (inexpensive, easy & quick) and have not had a problem since.

Pretty sure Jack hit the nail on the head regarding the clutch. But if you have the hydraulic clutch and are getting transfer...it's an easy fix.



Kevin

 

[520fd]

I had this vent tube installed last year sometime. I haven't had any problem on my 19 Tri-Glide. I'm working on 21000 miles. Granted, I don't think I had any problem in the 1st. place. So this seems to be the "fix". This will be the 3rd. time this tri-glide has been to Sturgis. Always ran great.

22 Sturgis Rally's over all.

 

[Jack Klarich]

I had this vent tube installed last year sometime. I haven't had any problem on my 19 Tri-Glide. I'm working on 21000 miles. Granted, I don't think I had any problem in the 1st. place. So this seems to be the "fix". This will be the 3rd. time this tri-glide has been to Sturgis. Always ran great.

22 Sturgis Rally's over all.

My 2017 Freewheeler did not have the vent, in 28K miles it never transferred any fluid, nor did it sump

My 2021 M8 114 Freewheeler has the factory installed vent, but it also has a cable pull clutch. I still maintain the slave cylinder for the clutch trapped the tranny fluid and pumped it down the clutch rod.

If you look @ the trap door and see the actuator you will see once the gears churn up the fluid it gets trapped by the piston of the actuator. This makes a barrier the fluid cannot get past, the next path would be down the pushrod and into the primary. JMO