hard getting into mechanical reverse

[engprosinc]

I have an '05 HD Ultra with the Lehman Renegade conversion. The 103 CID engine is hooked to a 5-speed trans with a mechanical reverse. I have a hard time getting into, and out of reverse. The previous owner said he used to put it in reverse with the bike in neutral, and engine off. I'm sure there will be times I can't do that, and have to go into reverse with the engine running.
I drainded the trans and filled with Amsoil 20W/50, but haven't road tested it yet. I am optimistic.
Any other ideas or recommendations would be appreciated.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Is it the Champion reverse kit?

If so, I think everyone has a similar issue.

I used to leave the bike in first gear with the clutch pulled in. Then start moving the reverse gear lever to engage so it wouldn't grind. I then put the bike into neutral and finished putting the reverse lever into place. Pulling it out of reverse was easy as long as I could roll the bike a bit and the drive train wasn't in a strain.

 

[Rick Kay]

I've got a Champion reverse. I start the bike in neutral, put it in first gear, then neutral, then reverse. It goes into reverse easily, and with no grinding. With the trike already running, I shift to neutral, the reverse with no problems. Hope this helps.

 

[trikermutha]

Never had any issues with mine..Put it in neutral reach down throw the lever. Put back in neutral reach down shift out of reverse.

Have you tried to shift in reverse while pulling in the clutch?? remember to put in Neutral first

 

[engprosinc]

I dont' know if it is a Champion reverse.
I will try putting it into first gear, then neutral, then shift into reverse proceedure. The only problem is that I have a hard time finding neutral, but let's see what happens.
Is it true if you accidentally try to shift into first while still in reverse, you will trash the tranny?
Thanks for all your recommendations.

 

[triketomcat]

I have all the same setup on my 05 HD/Lehman and the shift into first then neutral and then do the reverse thing is good also try adding some "LUCAS TRANS LUBE" it smoothes that and any clunckin out.

 

[trikermutha]

I dont' know if it is a Champion reverse.
I will try putting it into first gear, then neutral, then shift into reverse proceedure. The only problem is that I have a hard time finding neutral, but let's see what happens.
Is it true if you accidentally try to shift into first while still in reverse, you will trash the tranny?
Thanks for all your recommendations.

sounds like a clutch adjustment may help..yes you will have problems if you put in gear and reverse ay te same time..

 

[engprosinc]

I have all the same setup on my 05 HD/Lehman and the shift into first then neutral and then do the reverse thing is good also try adding some "LUCAS TRANS LUBE" it smoothes that and any clunckin out.

How much Lucas Trans Lube do you add? Where do you get it?
Does your ride have rear drum or disc brakes? Mine has drums.
Do you know how to adjust drum brakes? Is it the same as adusting car drum brakes? Any tricks? Any tools required?
Sure wish I had disc brakes on the rear. Oh well, maybe next time.

 

[Sloufoot]

Before you find the problem getting in reverse, you are going to have to adjust the clutch properly . The same for finding neutral. I bet when you do that, you will find both other problems helped !
If the gears are in a bind, or under load from the clutch not releasing far enough you will have problems ! And get that engine oil out of the trans, & put in something to protect the gears. I know the book says you can use 20/50 in the trans, & a few do that, but I only trust the job to 75/140 Amsoil synthetic gear lube. There are a lot of options for the trans oil, but that is just my opinion..........

 

[engprosinc]

Before you find the problem getting in reverse, you are going to have to adjust the clutch properly . The same for finding neutral. I bet when you do that, you will find both other problems helped !

If the gears are in a bind, or under load from the clutch not releasing far enough you will have problems ! And get that engine oil out of the trans, & put in something to protect the gears. I know the book says you can use 20/50 in the trans, & a few do that, but I only trust the job to 75/140 Amsoil synthetic gear lube. There are a lot of options for the trans oil, but that is just my opinion..........

Thanks for the feedback. I will adjust the clutch ASAP, and look into the 75W/140 from Amsoil. Is Harley's tranny oil 752W/140 too? Is it full synthetic?

Will post results once I adjust the clutch.

What oil do you use in the crancase?

Harley's?

 

[Sloufoot]

Thanks for the feedback. I will adjust the clutch ASAP, and look into the 75W/140 from Amsoil. Is Harley's tranny oil 752W/140 too? Is it full synthetic?
Will post results once I adjust the clutch.
What oil do you use in the crancase? Harley's?

I use Amsoil in all three boxes: 20/50 in the engine, 20/50 in the primary, & 75/140 in the trans. All Synthetic. Some say there are better combinations, but that has worked out fine for me on two other Harleys.
Some like Spectro, & it has a good track record also. But the 20/50 in the trans hasn't been very popular. I do feel a good difference.
I'm just an Amsoil person. It exceeds all the Harley spec's. Not the only one out there that does, but just my choice.
:Trike1:

 

[Sloufoot]

Do some searches on here & on hdforums.com . You will find answers on most problems with Harley & others that have been triked. Also look at all the stickys, Lots of free information there.

 

[engprosinc]

Do some searches on here & on hdforums.com . You will find answers on most problems with Harley & others that have been triked. Also look at all the stickys, Lots of free information there.

I am placing an order today for Amsoil for the engine, and will order the 75/140 for the tranny. Sloufoot, I appreciate your reply and recommendation.
At 71, I believe it is never too old to learn something new.

 

[engprosinc]

I have all the same setup on my 05 HD/Lehman and the shift into first then neutral and then do the reverse thing is good also try adding some "LUCAS TRANS LUBE" it smoothes that and any clunckin out.

How do you jack up your 05 trike? Do you put the floor jack under the carrier, or somewhere else? Have you greased the carrier before? Iare there any tricks of the trade to do this without getting killed?

 

[engprosinc]

I'm new to this web site. What is a sticky?

 

[THEREALTRIKKY]

Also, IF you do have a Champion reverse, on their 5 speed there is a "shimming" procedure when installing the gear assembly. If this isn't followed properly when installed, the reverse can be difficult to engage, and cause unnecessary additional "grinding" when engaging. If you go to their web site, and download the 5 speed installation instructions, you will see what I'm referring to.

I've had to re-do this on countless reverses because of improper installations. Figured it was worth a mention at least!

 

[engprosinc]

Sloufoot,
I installed Amsoil 75/90in my 5-speed trans. It's still almost impossible to find neutral. Do you suggest I replace the 75W/90 with 75W/140? Will the higher viscosity help, or should I leave things alone?
Thanks in advance.

 

[trikermutha]

Sloufoot,
I installed Amsoil 75/90in my 5-speed trans. It's still almost impossible to find neutral. Do you suggest I replace the 75W/90 with 75W/140? Will the higher viscosity help, or should I leave things alone?
Thanks in advance.

clutch and primary chain adjusted properly..How old is the clutch?

 

[Sloufoot]

Sloufoot,
I installed Amsoil 75/90in my 5-speed trans. It's still almost impossible to find neutral. Do you suggest I replace the 75W/90 with 75W/140? Will the higher viscosity help, or should I leave things alone?
Thanks in advance.

You won't feel much difference in the two. Most of the difference only shows when really hot.
Take a look at the post by THEREALTRIKKY. There might be some good information there. You have tried the easy things without much success.
As the Wiz mentioned also, You could have a faulty clutch. Like warped plates not letting the clutch release all the way. Many things need eliminated. Don't give up, you'll find it.
:Trike1:

 

[DTR 11TG]

I'm new to this web site. What is a sticky?

As you go to each different forum like, Harley Trikes or General Discussion, you will notice that the first few threads are marked Sticky. They are threads that have a subject often talked about or a subject that needs updating. Just look at the first few threads the see if its marked Sticky.

 

[engprosinc]

You won't feel much difference in the two. Most of the difference only shows when really hot.
Take a look at the post by THEREALTRIKKY. There might be some good information there. You have tried the easy things without much success.
As the Wiz mentioned also, You could have a faulty clutch. Like warped plates not letting the clutch release all the way. Many things need eliminated. Don't give up, you'll find it.
:Trike1:

The clutch was replaced in 010. He said the original was too hard for him. He had arthritis of the shoulder and wrist, and that is why he eventually sold me the trike and bought a Can Am. I adjusted the clutch to Clutchwiz's procedure. Still can't find neutral with any success, unless the engine is turned off. The previous owner said he had the same problem, but sometimes he could get into neutral using is heel on the toe shifter from second.
How can I check to see if the clutch is warped? How can I check the chain tension?
As you can tell, I am a newbie to this type of problem. i appreciate your help.

 

[engprosinc]

As you go to each different forum like, Harley Trikes or General Discussion, you will notice that the first few threads are marked Sticky. They are threads that have a subject often talked about or a subject that needs updating. Just look at the first few threads the see if its marked Sticky.

Thank you.

 

[THEREALTRIKKY]

Based on this thread and your issues, I can tell you with a 90% likelihood, the entire problem is poor reverse installation and improper spacing of the reverse. This is one of the most important steps that needs to be followed to the letter to allow the reverse to operate as designed. You will need to get some shims ordered from Champion to allow proper spacing. I can tell you from doing this "adjustment" many times, it's the most commonly overlooked, and problem causing issue I've ever seen with Champion's 5 speed reverse. Here is a link to the installation instructions page from champion, download the instructions and look them over. Installation Instructions

Go to step 5, this is the step that shows in detail the shimming process. I can't count how many reverses I've had to redo because this step wasn't followed properly. It will cause the reverse to be VERY difficult to engage, and when it does engage with the bike running, can cause excessive grinding of the gears as well.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

:10:

Good post right there...

Mechanics are simple if you don't let it mess with your mind.

If adjustments will not work it must be a mechanical part issue or installation error. :gah:

 

[engprosinc]

Also, IF you do have a Champion reverse, on their 5 speed there is a "shimming" procedure when installing the gear assembly. If this isn't followed properly when installed, the reverse can be difficult to engage, and cause unnecessary additional "grinding" when engaging. If you go to their web site, and download the 5 speed installation instructions, you will see what I'm referring to.

I've had to re-do this on countless reverses because of improper installations. Figured it was worth a mention at least!

Thank you for your response.
I am now able to get into reverse. I never had a reverse before this trike, and the person who sold it to me lead me to believe that I just had to pull the lever on the tranny toward the rear to get it into reverse. I found out that I had to PUSH the lever in toward the tranny and then pull it down. Viola! It works. However, it does "slams" when I put it in reverse while the engine is running...not unlike the usual "slam" when you put the tranny into first gear while the engine is running.
Once again, thanks a lot.