extreme steering wobble at low speeds

[Gazza58]

I have an intruder 1500 which was triked around 5 years ago with a reliant robin rear end. Although this steering wobble has always been there and being new to trike riding I thought that this was normal. I feel that this problem is now getting worse. Does anyone out there know how to solve this problem.:gah:

 

[Nana]

Welcome to TrikeTalk, Gazza!
Not sure it is the problem, but if you don't have the front end raked, you will find the steering gives you these problems. Some of these knowledgeable guys will have some specific suggestions for you!

 

[spiritdream]

Hi Gazza, and welcome! I could be way off here (someone will let you know if I'm wrong), but the way I understand it a stabilizer will ease that front end wobble, and a rake kit will make the overall steering easier. Bazooka or one of our other members will undoubtedly know better than me! :yes:

I have the Suzuki C50 with a Lehman trike kit. The dealer told me that there would be a front end wobble at low speeds - this is common, apparently. The C90 isn't as bad because it has a stabilizer (again, according to my dealer), and they now make one for the C50 - maybe you could check with a dealer and see if one of those stabilizers will work on the Intruder. (Other than the fact that they're both Suzukis, I know nothing about the differences between the Intruder and Boulevard)

Good luck, ride safe, and have fun!! And again, welcome!!

 

[mmkrnh8012]

Check your steering head bearings, they may be loose.

 

[kj5ix]

The Intruder, and C90 are in all aspects the same except that the Intruder is carberated. The low speed shake is normal for them, but the tree stem nut needs to be a little tighter ( don't know just how much ), and you should have a steering dampener. If you don't that is more than likely where it is coming from. Also it will get worse if you haven't had a damper with tire ware.

 

[acetrike]

Hi Gazza. With many short wheel base trike conversions, you will have a steering wobble at slow speed and deceration, especially if you remove one of your hands from the handle bar.. Tightening the bearings may help and a steering dampner will as well.. But if this wobble was there from day one, you may be in need of a raked front end (easy steer)... That will normally fix up any wobble straight away.. and make your trike a bit easier to ride and equally more fun with less rider fatigue on longer rides.. I've have a few dealings with the guys/girls at TRIKESHOP.CO.UK in the past.. maybe they can help you out! Good luck!

 

[Yogisan]

The Intruder, and C90 are in all aspects the same except that the Intruder is carberated. The low speed shake is normal for them, but the tree stem nut needs to be a little tighter ( don't know just how much ), and you should have a steering dampener. If you don't that is more than likely where it is coming from. Also it will get worse if you haven't had a damper with tire ware.

My '07 C90 came with a steering dampener and it still had the low speed wobble. Checked the front tire for cupping then tightened up the steering nut even more. The issue finally cleared up when I had Steerite rake the triple tree and I added 2-inch fork tube extensions. There is still some wobble occassionally, but it's reduced to barely noticable.

 

[Loner]

Good input, Yogisan, and I agreed wholeheartedly. Not to negate any advise here necessarily, but steering dampeners for these problems are at best a band-aid. Steering geometry changes significantly when a bike is triked. And having owned a C90 myself (two wheels), I am aware that they are sensitive in the steering department already (seems to me like too much weight on too soft front springs, but I never really delved into it much).

Make sure the stem nut (main nut on trees) is tightened a bit more than stock, check your tires (all three) to insure good tread, correct air pressures, and beyond that consider the 'raked tree' solution (although costly unless you are good with a wrench yourself).

 

[1550vt]

+1 on all the above. I rode a trike for a couple of years and it handled like a dump-truck......UNTIL I raked it. Serious low-speed wobble and would wear you out (as well as scare you to death) in the curves. Raking mine improved curve-handling to the point that I can ride with any of my 2-wheeled buddies and I now have power steering. I have read something somewhere concerning the difficulty in finding a rake kit for some of the metric rides, but there are some companies out there that will take your stock trees and re-work them to add some rake. 3-4 degrees will make all the difference in the world.

 

[Will]

I guess there are a number of possible causes of wobble. I just corrected a serious wobble that was in my gl1800 trike since I bought it last year. There was a tire sealer/balancer in the tires, called RideOn. I had the tires removed, cleaned out and reinstalled, then spin-balanced. Problem corrected 100%; hands-off, no wobble.

The main source of the wobble seems to have been the rear wheels. Maybe one of your tires is OOB?

 

[RPM54]

Welcome aboard, the steering head bearing need to be tighter then they would normally be after the bike is triked. See if you can tighten them down so that the steering will only swing about one pass if you have th bars all the way to one side and let go with the front off the ground.

Can any one explain "only swing about one pass" I can't figure out what Gorilla is telling us.

thanks

 

[Lucky]

Just a suggestion. Why not PM Gorilla and tell him you don't understand.Sure he will be glad to walk you thru it.RIDE SAFE

 

[RPM54]

Lucky, I asked on this thread thinking that there might be more members (hope I'm not the only one) that also don't quite understand what Gorilla is talking about, also I'm not sure how to go about sending a PM to a member. Can some one fill me in please?
Thank you for your reply

 

[Nana]

PM sent to you with instructions for private messaging

 

[Gorilla]

Okay guys I will try and be a little more detailed. If you raise the front of your trike off the ground so that the handle bars can swing freely from side to side freely. You just want to clear the ground a little. You want to make sure that the handlebars will swing from side to side freely. You take the bars and pull them full left. You let go and the bars will swing to the right to the end and then reverse back and forth until they stop. A properly setup (tighten down steering nut) on a 2 wheel Harley Touring bike will swing approx. 2.5 times before stopping. (left to right is one swing, right to left second swing, back to about the center is the half swing) What you want on a Harley davidson touring trike is for the steering nut to be tight enough that you only get the one swing from left to right then it stops. I hope this helps.

 

[tedsch47]

I have GL1500 trike and I had the same problem at low speeds. I upgraded my springs from stock to progressives and reduced the wobble to almost nothing (no wobble going straight).

 

[Mick]

I had an 03 Intruder and after talking with other owners this seems to be an issue over time with the front end. Like wing owners they eventually would switch over to an All Balls style bearing or a Timken bearing in the neck to tighten up the front end. The wobble will only get worse over time. You can tighten it up and it will work for a while ,but then it will slowly come back. The best thing you can do is replace the bearings with a better sturdier bearing.

 

[ben2go]

Does anyone know what a solid rake angle should be on the front forks?My two wheeler is 32-35 degrees out, same as the head tube angle.So my guess would be 35-40+ degrees out.I really don't like raked bikes or trikes,but I wanna be sure I eliminate any head shake/wobble because my GF will be riding the trike with our son on back.

 

[stacebg]

Does anyone know what a solid rake angle should be on the front forks?My two wheeler is 32-35 degrees out, same as the head tube angle.So my guess would be 35-40+ degrees out.I really don't like raked bikes or trikes,but I wanna be sure I eliminate any head shake/wobble because my GF will be riding the trike with our son on back.

just to be sure of the concept here ..... for a trike when the front is "raked" we are not talking about the frame but rather the trees...
have found about six degrees in the trees works for me depending on what bike....... with six i have very easy steering...and i dont use a damper
all a matter of preference... some say i am nuts going so much.... but i have over 42k on my vmax since the conversion and over 30 on the harley
never had and issue
do wish i went more than six on the harley though

stace

 

[Nana]

Ben, the usual rake on trike (like EZ Steer) is 4-1/2 degrees, but depending on personal preference and your particular trike, a lot of folks opt to go up to the six degrees. But wherever you are in that range, you will find it makes a huge difference for you in a good way!

 

[ben2go]

just to be sure of the concept here ..... for a trike when the front is "raked" we are not talking about the frame but rather the trees...
have found about six degrees in the trees works for me depending on what bike....... with six i have very easy steering...and i dont use a damper
all a matter of preference... some say i am nuts going so much.... but i have over 42k on my vmax since the conversion and over 30 on the harley
never had and issue
do wish i went more than six on the harley though

stace

Thanks.
Correct.I'm not going to rake the head tube on my bike,just rework the trees or make new ones with more fork rake.Since my last post, I have found out that my bike runs 25 degrees of rake at the forks in two wheel form, instead of 35 like I stated earlier.So I will probably need to make new trees.My stock trees are cast steel or iron.

Ben, the usual rake on trike (like EZ Steer) is 4-1/2 degrees, but depending on personal preference and your particular trike, a lot of folks opt to go up to the six degrees. But wherever you are in that range, you will find it makes a huge difference for you in a good way!

Hey Nana.
With my bike being raked at 25 degrees at the forks,then 6 degrees added in won't be quite enough.I was looking through some of my old iron horse mags and a low rake for a cruiser at the forks is 35 degrees.I'll need 10 added in to get that.There are no aftermarket trees for my application.It will be 100% custom.My bike has parts from other bikes that I modified heavily to work with my frame and engine.I'll just have to work through the details on paper and then transfer it to the bike.

 

[Nana]

With your custom build, I can understand. The rake kits obviously are for stock setups! Can't wait to see yours all done

 

[Loner]

I recommend that you do some geometry measurements on your trike build before you manufacture 10 degree raked trees. If you go too much in the tree rake, your trike will drift and feel quite lite in the front. It will not be a comfortable (nor safe) situation. Not a firm fact, but you can go overboard with raked trees - trail needs to be a positive number, usually 2 to 3.5" (varies by a zilliion other factors).

Plus, there's a point of rake where hydraulic tube forks virtually quit work and become stiff. I've found, for example, that HD type 41mm tube forks don't want to collapse properly at anything beyond 37 degrees total rake. I don't know what point that would be for Suzuki forks.

Just droppin in my 2 cents worth (probably worth less than that).

 

[ben2go]

I recommend that you do some geometry measurements on your trike build before you manufacture 10 degree raked trees. If you go too much in the tree rake, your trike will drift and feel quite lite in the front. It will not be a comfortable (nor safe) situation. Not a firm fact, but you can go overboard with raked trees - trail needs to be a positive number, usually 2 to 3.5" (varies by a zilliion other factors).

Plus, there's a point of rake where hydraulic tube forks virtually quit work and become stiff. I've found, for example, that HD type 41mm tube forks don't want to collapse properly at anything beyond 37 degrees total rake. I don't know what point that would be for Suzuki forks.

Just droppin in my 2 cents worth (probably worth less than that).

Thanks.
I been thinking more about this, and I completely get what you're saying.I'm not a fan of heavily raked bikes or trikes.Since my bike is so small I will be keeping the rake to a minimum.The forks I am running are lighter weight Katana 750 forks.They are 41mm and this will give me dual disc front brakes with a 17 inch wheel.It's all ready set up on my two wheeler.I haven't done any frame measurements yet.When I convert the rear swing arm over to a straight axle,it will lower the rear a few inches,and increase the rake.After the trike is on it's wheels,I will take the necessary measurements and correct the rake as required.How does weight play into rake?More weight, more rake?Less weight,more rake?If I have the correct weights for the parts I am planning to use,my trike will be around the 500-550lbs mark.Dry weight for a bike like mine in stock form is 373.


Loner,I see you are into the VW trikes.I helped with a few builds and repaired a few.I used to work with a friend that was an air cooled only VW mechanic and owned his own repair shop.He is a big motorcycle guy also.So it was natural for him to cross the two.I am a certified auto and industrial mechanic.I kind of have a thing for all things mechanical.Still learning tho.When I quit learning,I'll sit on the porch in a rocking chair. :wtg:

 

[Loner]

If you're going to take your measurements with everything on wheels, then you're going to want to measure for trail, not rake. Study-up on trail measurements, do them with you (or an approximating weight) in the seat, and those measurements will be the basis for your calculations of your ideal 'raked trees'.

That 'theory' stated, I suspect it would be prudent to know what kind of two-wheeler you are converting. If it's a crotch rocket as it sounds like, seems to me a more prudent answer would be to get an air-cooled VW front axle assy and graft it one (aka Can-Am) than to work with the fine-tuned frame of the stock bike. Just my thoughts.

 

[ben2go]

If you're going to take your measurements with everything on wheels, then you're going to want to measure for trail, not rake. Study-up on trail measurements, do them with you (or an approximating weight) in the seat, and those measurements will be the basis for your calculations of your ideal 'raked trees'.

That 'theory' stated, I suspect it would be prudent to know what kind of two-wheeler you are converting. If it's a crotch rocket as it sounds like, seems to me a more prudent answer would be to get an air-cooled VW front axle assy and graft it one (aka Can-Am) than to work with the fine-tuned frame of the stock bike. Just my thoughts.

1990 Suzuki GS500.It's kind of in between a sport bike and a standard bike.Most people consider them a striped down sport bike(AKA naked sport bike).The one I ride I built to be ridden like a sport bike.I'm not building this trike to be a tourer or traveler.It will be for short jaunts and day cruises.I do plan to add a trunk to it for the GF's purse.If I make it comfy for her then she'll ride with me most of the time.I haven't decided if that's a good thing or bad thing yet.After 10 years,you'd think I would know. :yes:

This is my bike.It has been heavily modified by myself and is built to run the mountains in my area.The one I am working on is striped to the frame at the moment,awaiting mock up.