Cruise Control doesn't work in 3 wheel mode.

[BigBen]

I have a 2020 Road Glide with RDRS. I have added TPMS sensors to both back tires, but when I put the bike in 3 wheel mode, the Cruise Control quits working. It works fine in 2 wheel mode, but I get a flat tire indication with 25 psi in the back tire. Anybody know about this problem or how to fix it?

 

[cycle7447]

Ben - you are the first guys that I am aware of that has written about this. Well guess what -I am in the same boat.

I have a 2021 Ultra - added a CSC conversion. I got the dreaded light -so, I worked with my dealer to see how they could install TPMS in back tires. When they did that, I was able to go to the info screen and see the PSI on all tires. And, the picture of the bike on the info screen now looked like a tirke.

Happy as heck, I picked the bike up - headed home and turned the cruise control on - it did not work.

While the bike was there, we had installed the lighted controls - so, we thought that was the issue. Nope - definitely a cruise issue.

Shop took it back inside and it was determined that the cruise was looking for something on the third wheel that is not installed on the regular bikes - so, it would not engage. He returned it to the 2 wheel mode and the cruise engaged.

So now I can only see the PSI on the front and one of the back.

Now you mentioned moving from 3-wheel mode to two-wheel mode. Is this something you were able to do yourself - or did you need the dealer to do it for you?

Let's stay in touch - perhaps we can figure this out.

 

[HDUSA1]

Following closely as my cruise on a 2020 Ultra isn’t working after converted to 3 wheel (sidecar) mode.

I modified and put new TPMS wheel sensors in both rear wheels, but haven’t taken it back to the dealer to program them yet.

The cruise is really important to work for me and I can live without the TPMS working. If I put it back in 2 wheel mode, they told me they can’t lower the rear tire pressure to get rid of the light.

Also, what about the Bank Angle Sensor that I put in and needs to be in 3 wheel mode to work?

 

[Trail boss]

I’m not saying I did this but I heard about a guy who didn’t release his parking brake all the way. Down the road he’s trying to use the cruise control and it won’t work. Ad soon as the idiot fully released the parking brake, the cruise worked fine.

 

[BigBen]

Ben - you are the first guys that I am aware of that has written about this. Well guess what -I am in the same boat.

I have a 2021 Ultra - added a CSC conversion. I got the dreaded light -so, I worked with my dealer to see how they could install TPMS in back tires. When they did that, I was able to go to the info screen and see the PSI on all tires. And, the picture of the bike on the info screen now looked like a tirke.

Happy as heck, I picked the bike up - headed home and turned the cruise control on - it did not work.

While the bike was there, we had installed the lighted controls - so, we thought that was the issue. Nope - definitely a cruise issue.

Shop took it back inside and it was determined that the cruise was looking for something on the third wheel that is not installed on the regular bikes - so, it would not engage. He returned it to the 2 wheel mode and the cruise engaged.

So now I can only see the PSI on the front and one of the back.

Now you mentioned moving from 3-wheel mode to two-wheel mode. Is this something you were able to do yourself - or did you need the dealer to do it for you?

Let's stay in touch - perhaps we can figure this out.

No, I couldn't change the mode myself. I took it the dealer and he did it. A funny thing happened throughout all of this. Before I installed the TPMS on the second back wheel, I would get a flat tire light on the dash telling me that the back tire pressure was too low. Once I Installed the TPMS sensor on the second back tire, put in 3 wheel mode, then back into 2wheel mode, I no longer got the flat tire indication.

 

[BigBen]

By the way, this only seems to be a problem on bikes with RDRS. If the bike doesn't have RDRS, all seems to work in 3 wheel mode.

 

[cycle7447]

By the way, this only seems to be a problem on bikes with RDRS. If the bike doesn't have RDRS, all seems to work in 3 wheel mode.

Interesting - I was not aware that all was working OK on bikes that are not RDRS.

When I started this process, some time ago, I got a lot of help from a guy here names PFWIZ. He was the first guy I knew that added the 3-wheel mode to his bike after the conversion.

Next time I see him here, I will ask if his cruise is working in three-wheel mode - and, if he had the RDRS.

His response would be helpful.

By the way - did the dealer install the TPMS in the rear wheels. Do you know how he did it?

 

[pwhoever]

Looks like he was just in the forum earlier today. Let's see if we can get him to respond on this thread. @PFWiz

 

[cycle7447]

Looks like he was just in the forum earlier today. Let's see if we can get him to respond on this thread. @PFWiz

By the way, I met him on a ride. He is awful but has the greatest wife. She is just like mine - Loves Shoes (LOL)

 

[PFWiz]

Interesting - I was not aware that all was working OK on bikes that are not RDRS.

When I started this process, some time ago, I got a lot of help from a guy here names PFWIZ. He was the first guy I knew that added the 3-wheel mode to his bike after the conversion.

Next time I see him here, I will ask if his cruise is working in three-wheel mode - and, if he had the RDRS.

His response would be helpful.

By the way - did the dealer install the TPMS in the rear wheels. Do you know how he did it?

My cruise works great, we use it all the time. Pretty sure my 18 CVO Limited doesn't have RDRS though...

 

[PFWiz]

By the way, I met him on a ride. He is awful but has the greatest wife. She is just like mine - Loves Shoes (LOL)

Hey I resemble that remark! My wife doesn't love shoes... She adores them!

 

[cycle7447]

Hey I resemble that remark! My wife doesn't love shoes... She adores them!

Hey - so good to see you here. Happy New Year - hope all is well.

Yes, my wife is the same way. She has a sign that says, "Money can't buy happiness" - but it can buy shoes and that's more important.

Thanks for letting us know that your cruise works fine with the 3-wheel mode. It must indeed be a result of the RDRS.

Also, we are thinking about going to the Cumberland, MD rally in June.

 

[BigBen]

Interesting - I was not aware that all was working OK on bikes that are not RDRS.

When I started this process, some time ago, I got a lot of help from a guy here names PFWIZ. He was the first guy I knew that added the 3-wheel mode to his bike after the conversion.

Next time I see him here, I will ask if his cruise is working in three-wheel mode - and, if he had the RDRS.

His response would be helpful.

By the way - did the dealer install the TPMS in the rear wheels. Do you know how he did it?

Yes, the dealer installed the TPMS sensor. But anybody could do it. I ordered some zip ties, 48 inch long and 4 inch long. The 48 inch zip tie went around the hub of the wheel, and then the 4 inch zip tie went through the TPMS sensor and then through the 48 inch zip tie to hold the sensor onto the inside of the wheel hub. Others have mentioned gluing the sensor to the hub or using a modified valve stem, but the zip ties worked for me. I have put on around 20,000 miles in this configuration and they seem to be holding.

I had previously contacted Motor Trike about all of this and they were no help at all, and didn't seem interested in what I did to solve the problem.

 

[cycle7447]

Ah - this I remember reading what you did early - the guy with the zip ties.

My dealer modified it and somehow attached it to the rim.

By the way, PFWIZ answered, his cruise works with the three-wheel mode - but he does not have RDRS

 

[HDUSA1]

In 2020, it shows factory TriGlides can have the optional RDRS system and their cruise works. My question(s) to the dealer when I take my bike in to activate the TPMS sensors I put in the rear wheels is does it operate the same as on the 2 wheel bikes? Do they need to reflash the BCM with a sidecar RDRS version or, are there options in the RDRS section to toggle on/off? Since it seems to be related to RDRS, can that be turned off when put in sidecar (3 wheel) mode?

 

[cycle7447]

In 2020, it shows factory TriGlides can have the optional RDRS system and their cruise works. My question(s) to the dealer when I take my bike in to activate the TPMS sensors I put in the rear wheels is does it operate the same as on the 2 wheel bikes? Do they need to reflash the BCM with a sidecar RDRS version or, are there options in the RDRS section to toggle on/off? Since it seems to be related to RDRS, can that be turned off when put in sidecar (3 wheel) mode?

Some great questions - let me know what you discover.

In my case, I don't want to turn my RDTS off - I love the hill assist and also installed the upgrade so I can use hill assist in neutral

 

[HDUSA1]

I really don’t want to turn off RDRS either as I like the features. But I do want the cruise control to work. I’ve already spoke to the dealer about it and just need the snow to melt and warm up some.

In the meantime, I’ve been searching on a Harley Sidecar forum to see if I can find anything on there.

BTW, what upgrade did you do for hill assist to work in neutral?

 

[cycle7447]

Just saw your post, sorry for the delay.

I got the Vehicle Hold Control Upgrade - Part - 69203477. Folks wondered why I would put this on a trike since I am sitting there with my feet off the ground.

In my opinion, this works better on a trike that it does on a two-wheeler. Imagine this - you are at a light or in heavy traffic. You simply put the bike it neutral and relax. No need to hold the brake or clutch.

This holds for 5 minutes.

 

[HDUSA1]

Thanks for the response!

So, now I’m digging in to it and have a few things I’m wondering about.

The part number you gave is for a kickstand switch on a 2 wheel bike to sense when the kickstand is down to disengage the park hold. After the simple switch installation and plugging the wire in to the connector on the bike, they then need to program it to turn it on.

It’s got me thinking. I wonder if this is related to the cruise not working on the RDRS bikes as well when switched to sidecar (3 wheel) mode.

Trail Boss mentioned above in his post the cruise doesn’t work on a factory TriGlide with the parking brake on. The TriGlide parking brake switch plugs in to the same connector on the bike as does the kickstand switch kit on a 2 wheel bike. There are 3 pins in the connector so I’m not sure of the pin logic to make things work.

A couple weeks ago, I was perusing a Harley Sidecar forum. They were talking about the new Police Harley Sidecar kit for the new bikes (including RDRS equipped) and in the instructions, it required the installation of the parking brake. I didn’t make the connection, but I bet the parking brake switch is required to let the cruise work.

I’m going to see if I can order just a parking brake switch for a TriGlide and do some experimenting….

 

[HDUSA1]

More to follow up. The TriGlide parking brake uses a magnetic proximity sensor. Part number is 32700011. It only uses 2 of the 3 pins, so now I just need to figure out which 2 to jumper. I am a bit confused though. The connector on the bike and the proximity connector both appear to be female sockets and won’t plug in to each other???

 

[HDUSA1]

Papa Zook - any chance you might ever work on a 2020 or newer factory TriGlide where you could snap a picture of the 3 pin connector under the black plastic cover? I’d like to see which 2 of the 3 wires are used and why the discrepancy in the connectors?

 

[cycle7447]

HDUSA1 - very interesting. I never made the connection to the parking brake and the cruise. Such might just be the answer.

My bike was converted before I added that vehicle hold switch - and the cruise didn't work when in three-wheel mode.

After adding the switch, there was no change. Let me know what you find out about adding the parking brake switch.

 

[HDUSA1]

It’s going to be a few weeks before I take my bike the 50 miles to the dealer…it’s dropping to single digits again tonight with 1-2 more inches of snow forecast.

I’ve got a factory service manual for a 2020 2 wheel Touring bike with wiring diagrams. What I would really like to get is a picture of a wiring diagram for the parking brake circuit out of a 2020 or newer TriGlide manual. There should be 3 pages for the “Main Harness”.

On another forum, I found guys were trying to bypass the JSS (Jiffy Stand Sensor). It’s not as simple as just making a jumper wire. The switch is actually a magnetic switch. When closed, it returns 5 Volts on the JSS sense pin #2 to the ECM. When open, it returns 2V to the ECM. Most of them taped a metal washer on the end of the sensor and zip tied it back under the cover.

 

[Zammy]

Carl, not sure this has what you want but I found this:

94000729_1391526_en_US - 2020 Wiring Diagram Wall Chart | Harley-Davidson SIP

serviceinfo.harley-davidson.com

 

[HDUSA1]

Thank you Zammy, I think that’s it!!!!

I’ll have to get on my desktop computer after awhile and see if I can print them out.

 

[HDUSA1]

I got them printed out and thought I had it figured out last night. After looking at it again today, I don’t think I do now.

I was wrong about the Jiffy Stand Sensor. The wiring for it goes directly to the ECM and has nothing to do with the parking brake circuit other than sharing a common ground.

What I thought I had discovered is on the TriGlide, they use pin D4 in the BCM connector for a “Parking Brake Switch Input”. The parking brake switch is a simple magnetic proximity sensor and is either on or off. It gets its ground feed from G4 in the BCM connector. I thought I could jumper D4 to G4 directly to solve it.

However, here’s the catch. I discovered that D4 also has a lead to the IM (Instrument Module) to turn on a dash light showing the parking brake on. I think when you pull on the parking brake, it closes the circuit to light up the dash light and sends a signal to the BCM to not allow the cruise control to activate. So, back to square one.

I’ve pored over the diagrams for both the 2 and 3 wheel bikes most of the day. I’ve scanned my bike for DTC codes and there are none. I performed the Cruise Control diagnostics and it all checks out. The only other thing that I suspect is the RDRS Trikes have separate WSS (Wheel Speed Sensors) for both rear wheels. They feed in to the ABS controller, then gets passed out to the main harness to both the BCM and ECM. The pin outs for the ABS controllers are completely different for the 2 bikes and I suspect now that’s where the problem is at.

Was curious, I’m assuming with the Traction Control turned off, the cruise still won’t engage, correct?

 

[trike lady]

Since things are becoming frustrating with what are being designed is there a provision to add a second reluctor ring to the rear wheel. If the two wheel configuration had one front and one rear, that means a trike would require 3.
According to the directions you are using one on the rear and the ring is sending a signal to the computer I have two wheels, even though it has 3. the design should be more like a car with one ring per wheel and the system should work correctly. This is just my observation and the computer control is being confused. When the computer is set for two wheels everything works as it should and when switched to 3 nothing works as it should.

Has this been done:

Procedure:
1. Connect H-D “Digital Technician”
2. Enter the “BCM Customization” menu
3. Go to “External B.A.S.” (Bank Angle Sensor)
4. Choose 2014-2018 Triglide or Sidecar. NOTE: Choose this option even if you
have a 2019 bike.
5. Finished

 

[trike lady]

I found what is missing between 2 and 3 wheels.

The converted trike is missing a third wheel sensor, using only a single one like two wheels and thus confusing the system.

 

[cycle7447]

I found what is missing between 2 and 3 wheels.
View attachment 131157
The converted trike is missing a third wheel sensor, using only a single one like two wheels and thus confusing the system.

Trust me, you guys are way smarter than me.

Still make me wonder - why does PFWiz's bike work. He has cruise when he turns on three wheels. He does not have the RDRS system.

 

[HDUSA1]

RDRS systems have a wheel speed sensor on each wheel.

I found what is missing between 2 and 3 wheels.
View attachment 131157
The converted trike is missing a third wheel sensor, using only a single one like two wheels and thus confusing the system.

Yes, that’s correct. The ABS controller on the Trike is looking for the third wheel sensor. That’s what I spent most of the day poring over the wiring diagram and searching parts online trying to see if I could add it, but the ABS controller and hydraulic servo unit is different as well as the pinouts on the wiring harness. Below is the diagram for the 2 wheel bike showing the different pinouts on the ABS controller.