BIGTROUBLE in EngineBuild

[JJTRIKER]

Ok I have a 2012 Road Glide w Motor Trike conversion.
December. I took it to my dealer for a 30 tooth sprocket and a stage iv kit. Well after metal shavings were discoverd it was down hill from there.
First off the heads rattled like you have never heard. So lifters pushrods in and out bla bla bla.
Then he asked if I liked the power and I said ok I just dont know if its the sprocket or the stage 4. He said motor they didnt put in the sprocket.because I would have issues with the cruise and speedo.
I was slighty pissed at that point. So fixes in fixes out the heads have to come off. Now the conversation takes place of what I need as apposed to what I want.
So engine apart and a 255 cam installed and power commander finally tuned.
Then I had the sprocket installed with a tts tuner and tuned yes pissed off again.
I have ridden 4k since then and I can tell you this is not the mod for a trike. Riding 2 up the wife and we hit the scales at almost 450 this was our first trip off the year because of weather.
Heres the stats 900 mile trip
30 mpg 6th gear unresonsive until 75mph then sluggish because the cam is now out of range.
So thats the story my mechanic is pretty well versed in 2 wheeler s but not trikes as yet.
So 3k spent and I have ported and flowed heads, 255 cams, and a 30 tooth sprocket and tts tuner.
What irritates me is thats half of a 120r.
Any suggestions?

 

[Rick Kay]

I am so sorry for all of your troubles. I know you had some good expectations from your motor...

I think you are right about mechanics being great with 2 wheelers and not so great with trikes. I think they don't have the experience to recommend the correct combination of parts to get the job done properly.

 

[John Luciano]

I hope that was all under warrantee ? 1st you said he did not want to change the gear now after u spend the money he does. I am under the understanding the Triglide gets better MPG in 5 th. I ride a wing so I really do not know. Just what I have read.

 

[JJTRIKER]

You are right about the gold wing but I dont want one. I have had several I loved my Valkyrie and Rune trikes but it was time to move on down the road.
Yes Rick I did to thats why I am now saving my money for the 120r. The people I have talked to absolutly love it.
By the way we went to the HD museum in Milwaukee. Over the weekend wow very cool. I will try to upload pictures of a couple of proto type trikesbthey have there.

 

[slick rick]

:wave4:...I bet that Rune was nice , never seen one triked ...ThumbUpThumbUp

 

[Rod69]

Sorry about your troubles. Had the gear changed and it helped. Put Woods 555 in and it really helped. Tuned with the Screamin Eagle tuner and can use 6th gear around 63 MPH and does pretty good. Wife and I are around the same weight as you guys are. Get around 34 to 36 MPG, depends on the riding conditions. Ride with a Goldwing Trike and we go back and forth on Mpg. One time I'll beat him by a couple tenths and the next time he'll beat me. Hope you get it straightened out. Also no issues with cruise, but speedo is 4 MPH fast.

 

[Buddy WMC]

J.J.,
Give me with the specifics on your engine,exhausts ect. I have 255 cams in my 103 with the 30 tooth gearing and do not have the problems that you have stated. I have a TTS calibration done by Doc Weaver that we did on my Trike while we were at his school. If my setup is close to yours, I can e-mail you the calibration. Download it and see if your Trike runs better. If it does, then you'll have to make a couple of V-Tune runs to dial her in for your conditions and riding style and so forth. Bullet 10 is running my calibration and loves it. I've got no problems with the 255's even on the interstate and no pinging or EITMS engagement. Mine is in closed loop until 4500rpm that I hardly ever see, 'll help if I can.
Buddy...

 

[JJTRIKER]

103 stock pistons
se 255 cams
ported and flowed heads
rivco 2 1/4 baffles slipons
no cat
what is bullet 10?

 

[Rick Kay]

Yes Rick I did to thats why I am now saving my money for the 120r. The people I have talked to absolutly love it.
By the way we went to the HD museum in Milwaukee. Over the weekend wow very cool. I will try to upload pictures of a couple of proto type trikesbthey have there.

Last fall I was ready to pull the trigger on a 120r, but decided to wait. My current setup is working real well for me, so I think I'll give it some more time, but I have not had the problems and frustration that you've experienced. I hope you get that 120 sooner rather than later!

Can't wait to see your spy photos!

 

[1852cc]

103 stock pistons
se 255 cams
ported and flowed heads
rivco 2 1/4 baffles slipons
no cat
what is bullet 10?

Road Glides make the best looking trike.
Tried to ride a Gold Wing, but my 6'5" frame and size 15 boots, there was no way I could ride the darn thing.
I have no issues with the 96 inch motor in my 2009 Road Glide/Lehman, 255 cams, big sucker air,
se-4 inch touring slip-ons, thunder max brain, revera pro clutch.
Ride 2 up all the time, loaded down with big t-bag on tour pack, tour pack full, trunk full, and a tray on the hitch with wife's 20 pound transport wheel chair in a bag.
Ride with a Gold Wing trike and a 2 wheeled ultra with 88 inch motor, beat the wing on gas mileage all the time by almost a gallon, within 1 to 3 tenths of the 88, average 40 to 42 mpg on back roads, 36 to 38 at interstate speed.
There is no issue running 65 in 6th gear on cruise control. I never run below 2500 rpm in any gear. Leaving for Glacier this weekend, will be the 3rd trip there.

 

[JJTRIKER]

Add a Big sucker air and 30 tooth sprocket

 

[1852cc]

Add a Big sucker air and 30 tooth sprocket

don't need the 30 tooth, at all 2009 has it already, earlier years were the high geared ones, and the 09 didn't have cats to deal with either!
my 96 has more hp and torque than a stock 103, the way it is. I do miss my 02 ultra 2 wheel, with the 113ci torque motor, but the trike is just fine now.

 

[JJTRIKER]

Mine is a 12

 

[1852cc]

Mine is a 12

I don't believe it is required on a 2012, I do know prior to 09, they were really high geared, and 6th was useless below 75 mph. I have a friend with a 07, that needed the 30 tooth.

 

[Sloufoot]

What is your rear sprocket size as compared to the HD Trike ? Might be the same might not. Just because The Tri needs a 30 tooth on the front drive, you may have more teeth on the rear. You may have already matched the ratio without the change.
Get rid of those 255 cams & put in the Woods 555's. Longer curve, & nice bottom end. Especially with good heads.
Just my opinion.................

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

Ok I have a 2012 Road Glide w Motor Trike conversion.
December. I took it to my dealer for a 30 tooth sprocket and a stage iv kit. Well after metal shavings were discoverd it was down hill from there.
First off the heads rattled like you have never heard. So lifters pushrods in and out bla bla bla.
Then he asked if I liked the power and I said ok I just dont know if its the sprocket or the stage 4. He said motor they didnt put in the sprocket.because I would have issues with the cruise and speedo.
I was slighty pissed at that point. So fixes in fixes out the heads have to come off. Now the conversation takes place of what I need as apposed to what I want.
So engine apart and a 255 cam installed and power commander finally tuned.
Then I had the sprocket installed with a tts tuner and tuned yes pissed off again.
I have ridden 4k since then and I can tell you this is not the mod for a trike. Riding 2 up the wife and we hit the scales at almost 450 this was our first trip off the year because of weather.
Heres the stats 900 mile trip
30 mpg 6th gear unresonsive until 75mph then sluggish because the cam is now out of range.
So thats the story my mechanic is pretty well versed in 2 wheeler s but not trikes as yet.
So 3k spent and I have ported and flowed heads, 255 cams, and a 30 tooth sprocket and tts tuner.
What irritates me is thats half of a 120r.
Any suggestions?

Im guessing that you no longer have a stage 4 installed but a 103 with stock heads that are ported and polished with the 255 cams?

What was your heads cc'ed at?

Head Gasket thickness used?

Im wondering if there was alot of pinging with the tune and they pulled timing out to keep it from happening and it has killed your overall power

My past experience with the 255 cams had been the same as yours, just no power to pull the trike loaded down or up hills in 6th gear. It runs out of breath too quick.

Bottom line if you want tractor pulling power your gonna have to go bigger. Saying this you can build a lower compression bigger bore engine that will have the stump pulling grunt you want and something left to pull the hill.

I had a 117" set @ 10.15 static with Wood TW7H cams and it pulled great. On I 26 heading north from SC to NC I could go up the 9% grade in 6th gear ( 32 tooth pulley ) and as long as no one was in the fast lane I would still be in 6th at the top

 

[Richard. Wales UK]

Hi

Having looked at all the Harley-Davidson bikes at the local showroom, they are things of beauty, but considering the size of the engines 103 (1600cc ish) and the 120 (1800cc ish ?) they are not very powerful, respect to the amount of work and $$ you must spend to get a bit more out of them.

Richard

 

[bullet 10]

Bullet 10 here, yea what Buddy said. 2010 Tri,30 tooth sprocket SE ventilator,255's, Black ops, FM tuned headers VH oval mufflers, TTS tuner (stock heads) Download tune from Buddy and advice from the Wiz. The 2009 and 2010 came with the 32 tooth sprocket, 2011 and up 30.

 

[msocko3]

Im guessing that you no longer have a stage 4 installed but a 103 with stock heads that are ported and polished with the 255 cams?

What was your heads cc'ed at?

Head Gasket thickness used?

Im wondering if there was alot of pinging with the tune and they pulled timing out to keep it from happening and it has killed your overall power

My past experience with the 255 cams had been the same as yours, just no power to pull the trike loaded down or up hills in 6th gear. It runs out of breath too quick.

Bottom line if you want tractor pulling power your gonna have to go bigger. Saying this you can build a lower compression bigger bore engine that will have the stump pulling grunt you want and something left to pull the hill.

I had a 117" set @ 10.15 static with Wood TW7H cams and it pulled great. On I 26 heading north from SC to NC I could go up the 9% grade in 6th gear ( 32 tooth pulley ) and as long as no one was in the fast lane I would still be in 6th at the top

:Agree: Sounds like he has a dealers science project, not many people do well with the SE255 and ported heads, especially if they get the compression higher than stock. I also ran the SE255 for a spell in both my dads 09 and the 10 I used to own, my fuel mileage was pretty good, much better than it was stock. It pulled pretty decent right off the bottom but as you said was out of breath, mine would drop off right around 4,300 rpm which isn't such a good thing when passing a couple cars or a long 18 wheeler. It was particular on what kind of fuel it was fed when running in the heat and pulling hills, some bad fuel or lower than 91 octane and it would reward you with plenty of pinging.

On flat land and good fuel it was a fun cam because just a little snap of the wrist and the front end would pop right up if you didn't fry the tires 1st. I'm betting the OP might be able to benefit from a custom ground cam if the heads he has haven't been hosed by some die grinder wielding head porter want to be.

120R or the or the low compression S&S 124 would be a fun setup, the 120R needs good exhaust and tuned properly to do its thing. A cam swap to something that hits a little more on the bottom in the 120R would really perk things up even more.

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

:Agree: Sounds like he has a dealers science project, not many people do well with the SE255 and ported heads, especially if they get the compression higher than stock. I also ran the SE255 for a spell in both my dads 09 and the 10 I used to own, my fuel mileage was pretty good, much better than it was stock. It pulled pretty decent right off the bottom but as you said was out of breath, mine would drop off right around 4,300 rpm which isn't such a good thing when passing a couple cars or a long 18 wheeler. It was particular on what kind of fuel it was fed when running in the heat and pulling hills, some bad fuel or lower than 91 octane and it would reward you with plenty of pinging.

On flat land and good fuel it was a fun cam because just a little snap of the wrist and the front end would pop right up if you didn't fry the tires 1st. I'm betting the OP might be able to benefit from a custom ground cam if the heads he has haven't been hosed by some die grinder wielding head porter want to be.

120R or the or the low compression S&S 124 would be a fun setup, the 120R needs good exhaust and tuned properly to do its thing. A cam swap to something that hits a little more on the bottom in the 120R would really perk things up even more.

:Agree: The 120R would definitely need a cam swap from the 266 that comes in it to work in a trike.

One thing with the 4 5/8" stroke engines is, you cannot lug them in the lower rpms beyond 1st gear. They require 300-500 more rpms to keep from stressing the flywheels. This is due to the 1/2" longer stroke

 

[SEAlaskan]

:Agree: The 120R would definitely need a cam swap from the 266 that comes in it to work in a trike.

One thing with the 4 5/8" stroke engines is, you cannot lug them in the lower rpms beyond 1st gear. They require 300-500 more rpms to keep from stressing the flywheels. This is due to the 1/2" longer stroke

FLTR!! You don't mind my asking!!! What cam do you think should be installed in the 120R? I have a SE120R on order and hopefully will have it installed in my 09 Triglide this August ThumbUp
Butch

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

FLTR!! You don't mind my asking!!! What cam do you think should be installed in the 120R? I have a SE120R on order and hopefully will have it installed in my 09 Triglide this August ThumbUp
Butch

With the lower than advertised compression and the cam duration and lift that is too high for the 120R compression out of the crate, the 266 cams that come in the 120R its my suggestion that you will need to get a custom ground cam set.

John who did my head work and had my custom ground cams made for my 124", has a design for the SE 120R engine with the MVA heads that have less lift and duration than the SE 266 cams. He tell me these cams will work with the weak exhaust flow he has seen on his flow bench testing the MVA heads.

He can order the customs cams and have them in 3 weeks. The only unknown is if you will be able to use the pushrods that come installed in the 120R. John cant answer that until he has the cam set in his hands to measure. If your interested send me a message and I will give you his contact info.

Also I want to emphasis to you once you have your 120 installed, riding your trike with the longer stroke engine regardless of what cam you decide on, you will have to remember and get into the habit of winding the engine up 300-500 more rpms before shifting to a higher gear after you shift out of first. This has to do with the added stroke length your 120 will have. If you lug the 120 engine you could cause your flywheels to shift.

Tom

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

FLTR!! You don't mind my asking!!! What cam do you think should be installed in the 120R? I have a SE120R on order and hopefully will have it installed in my 09 Triglide this August ThumbUp
Butch

With the lower than advertised compression and the cam duration and lift that is too high for the 120R compression out of the crate, the 266 cams that come in the 120R its my suggestion that you will need to get a custom ground cam set.

John who did my head work and had my custom ground cams made for my 124", has a design for the SE 120R engine with the MVA heads that have less lift and duration than the SE 266 cams. He tell me these cams will work with the weak exhaust flow he has seen on his flow bench testing the MVA heads.

He can order the customs cams and have them in 3 weeks. The only unknown is if you will be able to use the pushrods that come installed in the 120R. John cant answer that until he has the cam set in his hands to measure. If your interested send me a message and I will give you his contact info.

Also I want to emphasize to you once you have your 120 installed, riding your trike with the longer stroke engine regardless of what cam you decide on, you will have to remember and get into the habit of winding the engine up 300-500 more rpms before shifting to a higher gear after you shift out of first. This has to do with the added stroke length your 120 will have. If you lug the 120 engine you could cause your flywheels to shift.

Tom

 

[SEAlaskan]

With the lower than advertised compression and the cam duration and lift that is too high for the 120R compression out of the crate, the 266 cams that come in the 120R its my suggestion that you will need to get a custom ground cam set.

John who did my head work and had my custom ground cams made for my 124", has a design for the SE 120R engine with the MVA heads that have less lift and duration than the SE 266 cams. He tell me these cams will work with the weak exhaust flow he has seen on his flow bench testing the MVA heads.

He can order the customs cams and have them in 3 weeks. The only unknown is if you will be able to use the pushrods that come installed in the 120R. John cant answer that until he has the cam set in his hands to measure. If your interested send me a message and I will give you his contact info.

Also I want to emphasis to you once you have your 120 installed, riding your trike with the longer stroke engine regardless of what cam you decide on, you will have to remember and get into the habit of winding the engine up 300-500 more rpms before shifting to a higher gear after you shift out of first. This has to do with the added stroke length your 120 will have. If you lug the 120 engine you could cause your flywheels to shift.

Tom

I'll have to run this engine as is for a while so I can recover for the shock of cost and install. I will be adding FuelMoto's new xxx High Output Head and X-Over pipes to help. I normally like to keep my RPM's high, I don't like lugging the engines. I am wanting to make this 120r more friendly to slower speeds (5-20 mph), stop and start on steep inclines (around town) as well as most of our speeds around here are 55 to 60 mph on the highway. I was curious to what cam or cams would make this engine a good stump puller/cruiser for the trike.
Thank you for your quick response and input, every bit helps.
Butch

 

[Sloufoot]

I'll have to run this engine as is for a while so I can recover for the shock of cost and install. I will be adding FuelMoto's new xxx High Output Head and X-Over pipes to help. I normally like to keep my RPM's high, I don't like lugging the engines. I am wanting to make this 120r more friendly to slower speeds (5-20 mph), stop and start on steep inclines (around town) as well as most of our speeds around here are 55 to 60 mph on the highway. I was curious to what cam or cams would make this engine a good stump puller/cruiser for the trike.
Thank you for your quick response and input, every bit helps.
Butch

Just a thought I'll throw in here is the latest Baker 7 speed gears that fit in the 6 speed case. 1st gear is lower than Harley's, & the rest are close & even all the way through. But it gives you that crawl around 1st gear. Also able to get slow without the cam lump working ya.
The draw back is the price tag......
:Trike1:

 

[msocko3]

I'll have to run this engine as is for a while so I can recover for the shock of cost and install. I will be adding FuelMoto's new xxx High Output Head and X-Over pipes to help. I normally like to keep my RPM's high, I don't like lugging the engines. I am wanting to make this 120r more friendly to slower speeds (5-20 mph), stop and start on steep inclines (around town) as well as most of our speeds around here are 55 to 60 mph on the highway. I was curious to what cam or cams would make this engine a good stump puller/cruiser for the trike.
Thank you for your quick response and input, every bit helps.
Butch

You have to be careful you don't get the primary pipe size to large, it'll kill the bottom end. I haven't seen enough of the Jackpot XXX to form and opinion one way or the other. FWIW I'm still running the same Supertrapp Supermeg on my 06 Ultra with its Head Quarters 120 that I've run since 2007, I just added more disk to increase the flow of the core.

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

You have to be careful you don't get the primary pipe size to large, it'll kill the bottom end. I haven't seen enough of the Jackpot XXX to form and opinion one way or the other. FWIW I'm still running the same Supertrapp Supermeg on my 06 Ultra with its Head Quarters 120 that I've run since 2007, I just added more disk to increase the flow of the core.

:Agree:

 

[JJTRIKER]

Fltr2008 no stage 4
255 stock pistons and ported heads
No pinging just kinda ok until it runs outa breath

 

[SEAlaskan]

Just a thought I'll throw in here is the latest Baker 7 speed gears that fit in the 6 speed case. 1st gear is lower than Harley's, & the rest are close & even all the way through. But it gives you that crawl around 1st gear. Also able to get slow without the cam lump working ya.
The draw back is the price tag......
:Trike1:

I looked at Bakers 7 speed back in 2009 when I pickup the trike, but not sure how it would hold up to the trikes weight and if my electric reverse ever goes out I will replace it with a mechanical reverse, so that leave the 7 speed out.
Butch

 

[SEAlaskan]

You have to be careful you don't get the primary pipe size to large, it'll kill the bottom end. I haven't seen enough of the Jackpot XXX to form and opinion one way or the other. FWIW I'm still running the same Supertrapp Supermeg on my 06 Ultra with its Head Quarters 120 that I've run since 2007, I just added more disk to increase the flow of the core.

Basically the changes Fuel Moto's made with the new Stainless Steel XXX High Output Head Pipe was in the area where the front and rear headers merge, I would lose the restriction at the cross over when using their new X-over kit, but I would still have the restriction at the mufflers since I will be still using my old SE 4" mufflers. So by allowing the left muffler to get more exhaust flow be a problem with bottom end?
Butch