bad luck continued

[starrider1946]

It was not a wing nut as i had thought. The nut and washer on the 3 & 4 side that holds the fan shroud had fell off and apparently was between the casting and the head and fell off in one of the ports. The bolt stayed on the back side of the valve and the washer went through. A friend of mine pulled the head off and retrieved the washer . He said he thought I would be alright.
We got the carb and everything on and when we started the motor I am getting nothing from the left side. Three and four haven't even tried to hit or anything. We checked the compression on 3&4. Good on both. Both are getting fire. Checked the valves on both and set them. Tried to adjust the timing while the motor was running on 1&2. Didn't make any difference. The plugs are not real wet. I don't think the casting on that side has a leak but not sure. I am using the 34pct and I just set it what the settings said which should be good enough for it to run I would think. Any suggestions. Thanks

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Check your firing order.
It is not like an in line 1342
It is 1432. 3 and 4 could be crossed. Easy to miss because everyone knows a 4 banger is 1342 ....lol
Or a massive air leak on than manifold.

 

[starrider1946]

I haven't slept at all last night thinking about it. I agree on the air leak. I am going to hit it again today. I guess if it does that is why the plugs are dry. It just isn't letting it pull fuel to the cylinders. I don't guess it could be the carb isn't putting out enough fuel for both but that doesn't make sense. I am carry a can of carb cleaner with me to spray around and see if I can' detect anything. Even with a bad leak it seems like the cylinders would at least try to run but neither one has hit.
I'll check the plug wires again today but when it runs it doesn't sound like a wires crossed deal to me. I'll keep you posted. This thing is about to get the best of me.lol. I have gray hair but I may not have any before this is done.

Check your firing order.
It is not like an in line 1342
It is 1432. 3 and 4 could be crossed. Easy to miss because everyone knows a 4 banger is 1342 ....lol
Or a massive air leak on than manifold.

 

[stinger608]

I seen that you said you checked the compression on them two cylinders. If it was good, that would more or less rule out cylinder to head leaks. Usually after pulling a head you have to either install the copper head rings or pull the cylinders and "lap" them into the heads.

I would pull the valve cover and rotate the engine to insure your valves are opening and closing correctly first. As Snu stated, check your firing order. If valves are opening fine, good compression, and firing order are fine then it pretty much has to be an intake leak. It would most likely be where the end casting meets the head.

I suppose if it is bad enough then possibly carb cleaner wouldn't allow the cylinders to fire correctly.

 

[Loner]

My vote is on an air leak at the manifold/head junction. Its is quite often that the manifold end castings bind in the center section if the #1 & 2 casting is not able to move and allow the #3 & 4 casting to seat in the center section without binding.

[ :Meds: ] - Loosen the #3 & 4 manifold at the head. Then loosen the opposite manifold as well as both rubber boots. Now with everything loose, align the manifolds properly and make sure the end pieces are seated on the heads and not binding on the center section. Then tighten everything down.

I bet that your leak problem will be resolved.

All advice comes with a money-back guarantee. Good luck!

 

[starrider1946]

I will pull the valve covers and check the rocker arms and valves to see if they moving right. I will go through the sequence of tightening the castings and boots.
One thing I want to ask. The motor is supposed to be a stock 1600cc. Is the 34pct right for it. I also understand it is a b____h of a carb to get right. I talked to the carstore where I got the carb and manifold and told him about the left side being dead. He said I could possibly have some type of cam that was drawing more fuel to right side and none going to the left side. I sent an emailto the guy I bought if from to ask him again about the motor. It sounds stock to me. I'll try these suggestions because I don't know what to do at this point. I'll keep you posted and thanks for the suggestions.

My vote is on an air leak at the manifold/head junction. Its is quite often that the manifold end castings bind in the center section if the #1 & 2 casting is not able to move and allow the #3 & 4 casting to seat in the center section without binding.

[ :Meds: ] - Loosen the #3 & 4 manifold at the head. Then loosen the opposite manifold as well as both rubber boots. Now with everything loose, align the manifolds properly and make sure the end pieces are seated on the heads and not binding on the center section. Then tighten everything down.

I bet that your leak problem will be resolved.

All advice comes with a money-back guarantee. Good luck!

 

[vwbug72501]

Bad luck continued

If I remember correctly, your trike was running before you started the conversion from 2 carbs to 1 carb, correct? I think I'd have to advise RUN.....DON'T WALK, TO THE NEAREST EXIT when it comes to that parts store with the cam theory. That guy is clueless!

 

[stinger608]

If I remember correctly, your trike was running before you started the conversion from 2 carbs to 1 carb, correct? I think I'd have to advise RUN.....DON'T WALK, TO THE NEAREST EXIT when it comes to that parts store with the cam theory. That guy is clueless!

Yep, just as VWbug stated, "that guy is clueless!!!"

The VW 1600 cams only have 4 lobs on them. The same 4 lobs run both 1 & 2 as well as 3 & 4 valves. That guy telling you that an idiot man. He doesn't know at all what he talking about.

If in fact it is a stock 1600 engine, the 34pct should be plenty sufficient to run the engine.

I am tending to go with Loner here. I think you are not down flush with the end casting manifold to the head.

 

[starrider1946]

I think the cam theory is bull too. Even it it was true I would think the engine would at least run on all cylinders. I am not going to call him back.
Yes the trike was running before I started the conversion. I hope there isn't anything wrong with the castings where they won't bolt down right right. I am going to to through the steps again today to bolt everything down. I'll keep everyone posted..

Yep, just as VWbug stated, "that guy is clueless!!!"

The VW 1600 cams only have 4 lobs on them. The same 4 lobs run both 1 & 2 as well as 3 & 4 valves. That guy telling you that an idiot man. He doesn't know at all what he talking about.

If in fact it is a stock 1600 engine, the 34pct should be plenty sufficient to run the engine.

I am tending to go with Loner here. I think you are not down flush with the end casting manifold to the head.

 

[starrider1946]

bad luck continuted

Talked to the prior owner and he said the fellow the bought it from didn't do anything to the motor so I am 99.9 percent it is stock. So with that being said I believe the 34pct should work for that from what I can read . It does have electronic ignition. Would that be a problem with the 34pct? Still trying.

I think the cam theory is bull too. Even it it was true I would think the engine would at least run on all cylinders. I am not going to call him back.
Yes the trike was running before I started the conversion. I hope there isn't anything wrong with the castings where they won't bolt down right right. I am going to to through the steps again today to bolt everything down. I'll keep everyone posted..

 

[Loner]

Electronic ignition will work fine with the 34 carb (and that's the carb that is the stock unit for your engine). It will have noting to do with your problem. Generally electronic ignitions are either working or they are not, period.

Again, it is a common problem for the intake end castings to get hung up when mating with the center section, particularly (in my case) the 3-4 end. Been there, done that more times than I care to remember. The valve, timing, etc. checks you are doing are great to insure everything is tuned and adjusted right.

By the way, cam problems? What a crock!

 

[stinger608]

It does have electronic ignition. Would that be a problem with the 34pct? Still trying.

Na, the electronic ignition won't have any issues combined with the carb. :clapping:

 

[starrider1946]

bad luck conitnued

Have you experienced any trouble with aftermarket castings? These are Empi but made in China or Tiwan. I surely hope there is nothing wrong with them.
What did you mean when said you had trouble with the center section getting hung up when mating with the center section? Also how can I tell if the castings are flush on the heads? I'll try and check everything in the morning.

Na, the electronic ignition won't have any issues combined with the carb. :clapping:

 

[stinger608]

What I was saying is pretty much the same as what Loner stated. Loosen the rubber boots between the center section and the end castings. Then tighten the end castings to the heads. After your sure they are tight, then tighten the clamps around the rubber boots mounting the center section.

Also, I don't know if your center section has the mount that drops down to a bolt on the engine case or not, but make sure that is loose until you get the boot clamps tight, then tighten it.

 

[Loner]

I've used literally hundreds of aftermarket castings and never had any defects or problems. All fit same as OEM.

To clarify, the surface on the head where it mates with the intake casting is at an angle as are the two studs on it. If the center manifold section is secured and not movable, the angles make it virtually impossible to align both ends of the end casting, and that often causes the tubes (center section and manifold casting) to bind because they try to go together at an angle (slight, but enough to be a problem).

By loosening the complete intake parts, it will allow the tubes to mate properly before tightening everything. Ditto on don't miss loosening at the securing stud (on the engine block) in the middle of the center section.

 

[starrider1946]

Well I have found out that it is in the mounting of the manifold. We mounted a two one barrel set up on it and it ran fine. I am going to just have to carefully go over it it the way you stated. What gaskets do you recommend. I ordered a new gasket set and it has the metal gaskets but I think I would trust some good thick fiber gaskets but I don't know where to get them. What do you think about the metal gaskets. Now that I know what it it makes me feel a little better but it is frustrating I can't get it right. It just doesn't seem like it could be that difficult.
Question: After mounting both castings and tightening them down should't I be able to feel a little slack in the cross over pipe to make sure it isn't in a bind or anything before I tighten down the boots. If it doesn't feel like it is in a bind I tighten down the boots and tighten down the nut on the stud and make sure it doesn't put anything in a bind the best I can. Seems like it should work. I really appreciate the help from all you guys. Now that I know what it is it makes me feel a little better that it i not internally.

I've used literally hundreds of aftermarket castings and never had any defects or problems. All fit same as OEM.

To clarify, the surface on the head where it mates with the intake casting is at an angle as are the two studs on it. If the center manifold section is secured and not movable, the angles make it virtually impossible to align both ends of the end casting, and that often causes the tubes (center section and manifold casting) to bind because they try to go together at an angle (slight, but enough to be a problem).

By loosening the complete intake parts, it will allow the tubes to mate properly before tightening everything. Ditto on don't miss loosening at the securing stud (on the engine block) in the middle of the center section.

 

[stinger608]

The metal gaskets should be just fine. However, if you wish to order the fiber type gaskets then these will work: http://carcraftstore.com/intakemanifoldgaskets.aspx
Just select the "thick base dual port" as your option on that.

yes, there should be quite a bit of movement in the center section with the boots and the support bracket loosed up. That's great that it ran good with the two single carbs mounted.

 

[Loner]

ThumbUp Ditto to what Stinger says!

 

[starrider1946]

I ended up leaving the dual one barrel set up on for now. Tired of fighting the other. Seems to run good. Doesn't have the power the dual webers had but I hope for better gas mileage. I've got to set up my vent system as it is different from the webers and a few other small things. Once again thanks for the help and I'm sure I will have more questions about different things.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Dual single barrels run strong at lower rpm. They tend to idle wonky. Seem to like to 2 cylinder idle. Weird but nothing to worry about. I have heard that a balance tube from one side over to the other really helps the idle. No direct experience with that mod though.