Cripple Mode

[JTJersey]

About 7 AM on I-64 headed to I-81 and TN. Passing a couple semis at 80 when I bumped it up to 90 to clear the last truck. Suddenly my '21 Freewheeler decided to quit running. No shoulder to my left and 2 semi's to my right. Couldn't accelerate and the dash lit up like it had shut off, but it was still running at a high RPM. The two trucks passed and I got to the right shoulder. Checked the diagnostic codes and one referenced the ECM and the other referenced the ABS. I wasn't in a position to right the codes down. Restarted and the trike ran normally for the last 300 miles. Seems I was in "cripple mode" for some reason. About 3 or 4 weeks ago I had the brake switch recall done. Could there be a connection with this and my rather disconcerting problem?

 

[Jack Klarich]

Highly unlikely related, some M8 engines when run hard like that experience high RPM sumping, then go into parade mode from the excessive heat built up due to not enough oil returning to the oil pan

The oil collects in the crank case the flywheels start to drag being overwhelmed by too much oil

Your M8 may be one of the ones that could benefit from the shorter crankcase plug

https://www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-feuling-sump-plug.htm

 

[SouthportFLRT]

Fueling Shorty Sump Plug

I had this installed during my last oil change. Install was so easy and quick that the H.D. Service Dept. did not charge for the installation. Once again, www.PartsGiant.com has this in stock. $16.99 with Free Shipping. I do not know if the Shorty Plug was needed, but the peace of mind it offers makes the cost non-existent. Or maybe it's just my mind that is non-existent. :clapping:

 

[ROAD DOG]

About 7 AM on I-64 headed to I-81 and TN. Passing a couple semis at 80 when I bumped it up to 90 to clear the last truck. Suddenly my '21 Freewheeler decided to quit running. No shoulder to my left and 2 semi's to my right. Couldn't accelerate and the dash lit up like it had shut off, but it was still running at a high RPM. The two trucks passed and I got to the right shoulder. Checked the diagnostic codes and one referenced the ECM and the other referenced the ABS. I wasn't in a position to right the codes down. Restarted and the trike ran normally for the last 300 miles. Seems I was in "cripple mode" for some reason. About 3 or 4 weeks ago I had the brake switch recall done. Could there be a connection with this and my rather disconcerting problem?

I dont want to get Blamed again for BASHING Harleys. But F$CKIN Harleys! Your just lucky it started. When I had mine I tried to stay with in walking distance of home.

 

[JTJersey]

Highly unlikely related, some M8 engines when run hard like that experience high RPM sumping, then go into parade mode from the excessive heat built up due to not enough oil returning to the oil pan The oil collects in the crank case the flywheels start to drag being overwhelmed by too much oil Your M8 may be one of the ones that could benefit from the shorter crankcase plug

https://www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-feuling-sump-plug.htm

Thanks Jack. Couple things. I've been in that situation several times, but the M8 performed flawlessly and never reacted this way. With 22,000+ miles on her shouldn't this problem have shown up before? Other question, what purpose does the plug serve to begin with?

 

[Jack Klarich]

Thanks Jack. Couple things. I've been in that situation several times, but the M8 performed flawlessly and never reacted this way. With 22,000+ miles on her shouldn't this problem have shown up before? Other question, what purpose does the plug serve to begin with?

JT,Sumping is like a Redhead wife, it does what it wants when it wants

On the plug, the M8 crank cases are poorly cast compared to TC cases

The case plugs are not all set to the same depth

If they are too deeply set it will interfere with an oil return gallery, thus slowing down the return oil to the oil pan, this gets worse with higher RPM riding

 

[JTJersey]

JT,Sumping is like a Redhead wife, it does what it wants when it wants On the plug, the M8 crank cases are poorly cast compared to TC cases The case plugs are not all set to the same depth If they are too deeply set it will interfere with an oil return gallery, thus slowing down the return oil to the oil pan, this gets worse with higher RPM riding

But why is it there at all?

 

[rhino 2]

Just curious, how can the engine still be running at high RPMs and yet be Sumping ..?

 

[Jack Klarich]

Just curious, how can the engine still be running at high RPMs and yet be Sumping ..?

Without knowing the trouble codes that is a good question

 

[rhino 2]

Just curious, how can the engine still be running at high RPMs and yet be Sumping ..?

Reason why I asked that question is that everybody is suggesting that John should put the shorter plug-in, without even any evidence of sumping to begin with ?…And installing that plug has some dangers in itself… there’s been some instances of cracking the case when installing it.. on this form and other forms..

 

[JTJersey]

Reason why I asked that question is that everybody is suggesting that John should put the shorter plug-in, without even any evidence of sumping to begin with ?…And installing that plug has some dangers in itself… there’s been some instances of cracking the case when installing it.. on this form and other forms..

I really, really wish I wasn't so concerned about getting slammed by an oncoming vehicle and wrote down those codes I saw. That being said why in the world is that plug even there? HD surely didn't just machine a hole in the crankcase for shits and giggles. It must have been done for some reason.

 

[Jack Klarich]

I really, really wish I wasn't so concerned about getting slammed by an oncoming vehicle and wrote down those codes I saw. That being said why in the world is that plug even there? HD surely didn't just machine a hole in the crankcase for shits and giggles. It must have been done for some reason.

Just for grins, have you re-scanned your ECM/ BCM for codes?

My guess is that plug and hole was designed into the crank case for some step in machining the rs crank case, maybe for an oil passage return gallery?

 

[rhino 2]

My guess is that plug and hole was designed into the crank case for some step in machining the rs crank case, maybe for an oil passage return gallery?

Every engine, being a car engine, motorcycle engine, aircraft, engine, boat engine they all have Welch plugs, freeze out plugs some are threaded plugs without a bolt ( and to the unknowing they think a bolt fell out)..for the applications with design reasons for the future and it’s best not to mess with them as a matter fact, if you look at the book, Harley is very specific, and says do not remove this Hex plug ‘ And that’s the plug we talking about..

 

[JTJersey]

Just for grins, have you re-scanned your ECM/ BCM for codes?

My guess is that plug and hole was designed into the crank case for some step in machining the rs crank case, maybe for an oil passage return gallery?

Yes, no codes found.

 

[Jack Klarich]

JT, you said your trike shut off, all the lights on speedo were on, but the engine was reved with high RPM, can you clarify this some?

I am thinking maybe if the engine was indeed revving high the ECM was remembering the last throttle position

Just for grins have you done a throttle relearn yet?

See post 1 here

https://www.triketalk.com/forum/thr...setting,reset your original throttle position.

 

[JTJersey]

JT, you said your trike shut off, all the lights on speddo were on, but the engine was reved with high RPM, can you clarify this some? I am thinking maybe if the engine was indeed revving high the ECM was remembering the last throttle position Just for grins have you done a throttle relearn yet? See post 1 here

https://www.triketalk.com/forum/thr...setting,reset your original throttle position.

Well it was a routine pass, albeit a little faster than I like to go, but there was nothing unusual happening. The trike was performing perfectly when, with no warning, I lost all power and started to coast. I couldn't accelerate and at first I thought the trike had shut down, like I had hit the kill switch. The lights on the dash were lit as they are when you first turn the ignition switch on. After the two trucks passed me I realized the motor was still running at about 1200 rpm which let me maneuver to the right shoulder of the road where I had enough room to pull over. When I came to a stop the engine was still running at about 1200 rpm until I hit the kill switch.

I don't know if the rear cylinder was firing or not. I don't actually think it was. I checked the error codes and the first definitely referenced the ECM and the second code definitely referenced the ABS braking. I read that link when it was first posted and I don't think it had anything to do with what happened. I've checked the electrical connectors and the battery terminal and nothing was loose or out of the ordinary. I was fortunate nobody was behind me or I might not be here typing this.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Well it was a routine pass, albeit a little faster than I like to go, but there was nothing unusual happening. The trike was performing perfectly when, with no warning, I lost all power and started to coast. I couldn't accelerate and at first I thought the trike had shut down, like I had hit the kill switch. The lights on the dash were lit as they are when you first turn the ignition switch on. After the two trucks passed me I realized the motor was still running at about 1200 rpm which let me maneuver to the right shoulder of the road where I had enough room to pull over. When I came to a stop the engine was still running at about 1200 rpm until I hit the kill switch.

I don't know if the rear cylinder was firing or not. I don't actually think it was. I checked the error codes and the first definitely referenced the ECM and the second code definitely referenced the ABS braking. I read that link when it was first posted and I don't think it had anything to do with what happened. I've checked the electrical connectors and the battery terminal and nothing was loose or out of the ordinary. I was fortunate nobody was behind me or I might not be here typing this.

One thing I have noted with the M8 engines, they tend to take a couple minutes to idle down after long hi way miles, at least my 17 and now my 21 does this, I am not a big fan of TBW or all the electronics on these trikes

I am glad you did not get hit from behind during this incident, and hopefully it was a one time glitch

 

[Rogue1]

In this woke society are we allowed to say "cripple mode"? LOL

 

[rhino 2]

In this woke society are we allowed to say "cripple mode"? LOL

Probably not, but it does get your attention doesn’t it?..

 

[1dn5up]

John , I had an issue with my 12 . The throttle would excelerate on its own for a second or two when cruising. Turned out to be the DBW department. Modern technology will hurt ya .

 

[rhino 2]

John , I had an issue with my 12 . The throttle would excelerate on its own for a second or two when cruising. Turned out to be the DBW department. Modern technology will hurt ya .

I’ve had a few abnormally’s Pop up on Harleys and I have learned to just turn the key off turn the key back on and if everything runs normal “Forgetaboutit” and just ride on and don’t get the urge to monkey with anything ..…

 

[ROAD DOG]

I would take it get on the highway early morning late night no traffic & try to make it do the same thing, stay in the right lane. Have a cell phone in case it dont start. If it was mine I would never trust it till I found out WHY.

 

[Jack Klarich]

I would take it get on the highway early morning late night no traffic & try to make it do the same thing, stay in the right lane. have a cell phone in case it dont start. If it was mine I would never trust it till I found out WHY.

I like this idea, with a cell phone you could take pictures of the trouble codes for future reference also

 

[JTJersey]

One thing I have noted with the M8 engines, they tend to take a couple minutes to idle down after long hi way miles, at least my 17 and now my 21 does this, I am not a big fan of TBW or all the electronics on these trikes

I am glad you did not get hit from behind during this incident, and hopefully it was a one time glitch

Thanks. Nothings happened since, but I'll be at the dealership Monday discussing it with them.

 

[rhino 2]

Thanks. Nothings happened since, but I'll be at the dealership Monday discussing it with them.

It will be interesting to hear what they (The dealer)...Finds out...Hopefully they can resolve it...And not "Gosh it must of just been a gulch somewhere".:Shrug:.

 

[WindyOne]

This couldn't have happened on a worse roadway. 81 is known for it's accidents. Glad you were safe during this.

 

[JTJersey]

Harley shop said there's nothing they can do without the codes. They didn't have a procedure to check the ECM itself for faults either. They suggested perhaps vibration at high speed on that stretch of road might have rattled an electrical connector somewhere. Didn't find anything loose when I checked and nothing has happened since, but it's the best I've got to go on for now. Is there a way to let Harley Corporate know about this? Just so it's on record in case other reports show up in the future.

 

[rhino 2]

Harley shop said there's nothing they can do without the codes. They didn't have a procedure to check the ECM itself for faults either. They suggested perhaps vibration at high speed on that stretch of road might have rattled an electrical connector somewhere. Didn't find anything loose when I checked and nothing has happened since, but it's the best I've got to go on for now. Is there a way to let Harley Corporate know about this? Just so it's on record in case other reports show up in the future.

If they wrote up a worksheet when you pull in the shop with a mileage, Vin# and time in W’mileage and time out W’milage , and gave you a copy of it when you left, that’s all you need for Harley corporate records..And yours… And All Harley Dealers have to Honor it..

 

[Jack Klarich]

You can try to contact customer service@[FONT=&quot]To speak with a [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Harley-Davidson[/FONT][FONT=&quot] customer care representative please call [/FONT][FONT=&quot]800-258-2464 or 414-343-405[/FONT]

 

[JTJersey]

I would take it get on the highway early morning late night no traffic & try to make it do the same thing, stay in the right lane. have a cell phone in case it dont start. If it was mine I would never trust it till I found out WHY.

Did run it up to 90 the other day and nothing unusual happened. I think I'm going with the vibration theory on the particular stretch of road I was on at the time. Other than that I got nothin.