Steering head bearing tightening, and possible pulling my leg

[cjmitch]

Steering head bearing tightening, and possible pulling my leg

I called a repair garage (independent) and told him I wanted to get my steering head bearing tightened, he told me i should replace the front wheel bearings also as a matter of course...


Is he yanking my chain

 

[07BlueCSC]

I called a repair garage (independent) and told him I wanted to get my steering head bearing tightened, he told me i should replace the front wheel bearings also as a matter of course...


Is he yanking my chain

If you are doing the steering head bearings, you should probably rebuild the forks. You have everything apart,
so you can two items at the same time.

 

[Papa Zook]

I called a repair garage (independent) and told him I wanted to get my steering head bearing tightened, he told me i should replace the front wheel bearings also as a matter of course...


Is he yanking my chain

Yes.

Torquing the steering stem involves nothing to do with rebuilding the forks or replacing the front wheel bearings. Nothing comes apart, the plastic cover is removed, the top retainer nut and star washer is removed, then the main nut is torqued, then the star washer and retainer nut is replaced. It's a fairly quick and easy job if you know what you're doing. The other stuff is purely optional, as needed job.

 

[Gold Rush]

I called a repair garage (independent) and told him I wanted to get my steering head bearing tightened, he told me i should replace the front wheel bearings also as a matter of course...


Is he yanking my chain

Don't know if he's yanking something or just trying to get in your pocketbook.. Either way that is not needed. My '06 had 120,000 on the front wheel bearings and were tight as a drum the last time I had the wheel off...

Do you still have the OEM bearings? I suspect you've got a rake kit installed so the OEM bearings were replaced with tapered bearings. Now would be a GREAT time to at least toss in a set of All Balls tapered bearings if you do still have the OEM bicycle style bearings.

As 07blueCSC mentioned if any fork work is indicated that would be a good time to do so. Do you still have the stock forks and are you intending to stay with them? How many miles do you have on them? I found about 25,000 miles on my '06 and the slides and glides were pretty well shot. :xszpv: :xszpv:

 

[cjmitch]

Do you still have the OEM bearings? I suspect you've got a rake kit installed so the OEM bearings were replaced with tapered bearings. Now would be a GREAT time to at least toss in a set of All Balls tapered bearings if you do still have the OEM bicycle style bearings.

No I do not have a rake, so I probably still have the OEM bearings.

As 07blueCSC mentioned if any fork work is indicated that would be a good time to do so. Do you still have the stock forks and are you intending to stay with them? How many miles do you have on them? I found about 25,000 miles on my '06 and the slides and glides were pretty well shot.

Stock forks, have no reason to change them
70,000 miles on Saturday

Had left fork tube replaced 1 year ago

 

[Papa Zook]

Don't know if he's yanking something or just trying to get in your pocketbook.. Either way that is not needed. My '06 had 120,000 on the front wheel bearings and were tight as a drum the last time I had the wheel off...

Do you still have the OEM bearings? I suspect you've got a rake kit installed so the OEM bearings were replaced with tapered bearings. Now would be a GREAT time to at least toss in a set of All Balls tapered bearings if you do still have the OEM bicycle style bearings.

As 07blueCSC mentioned if any fork work is indicated that would be a good time to do so. Do you still have the stock forks and are you intending to stay with them? How many miles do you have on them? I found about 25,000 miles on my '06 and the slides and glides were pretty well shot. :xszpv: :xszpv:

Claude is the single most vocal " You don't need a rake kit!" guy on the forum, so no he doesn't have a rake. His bike, his opinion...ThumbUp

If its just a stem tighten, the above process I detailed is a quick and easy fix. You are right about replacing the standard bearings with tapered bearings though Jerry...not totally necessary but sure wouldn't hurt anything, it would however require the front end come off and apart. Raked front ends do wear bushings quicker than non-raked, but non-raked front ends like his don't normally need seals and bushings until at least 50K miles, at least that is what the Honda Service manual recommends... my .02


(you beat me to it Claude)...

 

[Gold Rush]

Yup, Claude might be better off just tightening up the bicycle bearings this deep into the riding season then doing some winter maintenance. I had around 76,000 miles on my '06 when I converted to a trike. The forks were pretty well used up at that point. Since he has 70K on now, the winter wrenching period would be an opportune time to rebuild forks and replace steering head bearings.

Partzilla.com it about the best price I've found for OEM Honda parts. A friend of mine save quite a bit when he rebuilt his forks last winter. :xszpv::xszpv:

 

[cjmitch]

replace steering head bearings.

the head bearings were replaced 5 years ago (with tapered)

Is this a good price?
All Balls Wheel Bearing Kits - BikeBandit.com

 

[Papa Zook]

Those are wheel bearings Claude...not tapered steering stem bearings.

 

[1800 06 Champion Trike]

I had a set of All Balls tapered bearings put in my Trike as soon as I bought it new in 06 Champion (per dealers advice). It also has a 4.5 factory rake kit. I had them replaced last year even though they still looked good.

 

[cjmitch]

Those are wheel bearings Claude...not tapered steering stem bearings.

I know.. is this a good price for the wheel bearings, as the head bearings were already replaced

 

[Gold Rush]

the head bearings were replaced 5 years ago (with tapered)

Is this a good price?
All Balls Wheel Bearing Kits - BikeBandit.com

Yes that is a good price. Even Partzilla gets more than that.... The obvious question is..... Are you having problem with the OEM? At 70,000 miles you should still be good unless there was premature failure. :xszpv::xszpv:

 

[cjmitch]

Yes that is a good price. Even Partzilla gets more than that.... The obvious question is..... Are you having problem with the OEM? At 70,000 miles you should still be good unless there was premature failure. :xszpv::xszpv:

No i dont think that there is a problem, I kinda fell for that repair shops gloom and doom


But the steering bearing definitely need tightening.
Is there a special tool required, and can I do this myself? (head bearings)

 

[pcombe]

Yes.

Torquing the steering stem involves nothing to do with rebuilding the forks or replacing the front wheel bearings. Nothing comes apart, the plastic cover is removed, the top retainer nut and star washer is removed, then the main nut is torqued, then the star washer and retainer nut is replaced. It's a fairly quick and easy job if you know what you're doing. The other stuff is purely an optional, as needed job.

That's the straight of it Zook!

Im still fighting the broad who ran into my trike insurance company and my bike is just sitting waiting for a damn adjuster!

I want (someone's) balls or something in my vice.:AGGHH:
This looks like a damn long process and the worst of it is that I could asses and repair it myself.
Come to think of it I would flo's tit in ringer!

 

[Gold Rush]

No i dont think that there is a problem, I kinda fell for that repair shops gloom and doom


But the steering bearing definitely need tightening.
Is there a special tool required, and can I do this myself? (head bearings)

The nut you need to torque has four notches cut at 90 degree angles from each other. There is a special socket normally used but I've heard of guys that made a tool they used instead. You'd also need the large metric socket used to secure the upper triple tree to the steering stem.

None of the job I'd difficult. Just takes time and a little patience. Having the shop manual is a real plus... The metric socket is easy to find. If you would like to own one of the special sockets I think I have a source that sells them MUCH cheaper then Honda...

 

[cjmitch]

The nut you need to torque has four notches cut at 90 degree angles from each other. There is a special socket normally used but I've heard of guys that made a tool they used instead. You'd also need the large metric socket used to secure the upper triple tree to the steering stem.

None of the job I'd difficult. Just takes time and a little patience. Having the shop manual is a real plus... The metric socket is easy to find. If you would like to own one of the special sockets I think I have a source that sells them MUCH cheaper then Honda...

Please let me have that information.
Also is there a video out there somewhere on how to do this?

 

[Gold Rush]

Please let me have that information.
Also is there a video out there somewhere on how to do this?

The fellow I got mine from can be contacted here: ehcycledude@yahoo.com . Zook told me of another place that is actually less expensive: http://www.dhsracing.com/GL1800tools.htm ($30 version).

I don't know of any videos but here is a link to Fred Harmon's site explanation and photos for bearing service. http://www.pbase.com/fredharmon/stembearings . This will give you the general idea how to tighten the bearings. Since you are not raked I'd think 28 to 32 ft. lbs. of torque should be plenty. Tapered bearings are usually set a bit tighter then bicycle style bearings and I seem to recall Honda says mid 20s....

 

[cjmitch]

The fellow I got mine from can be contacted here: ehcycledude@yahoo.com . Zook told me of another place that is actually less expensive: http://www.dhsracing.com/GL1800tools.htm ($30 version).

I don't know of any videos but here is a link to Fred Harmon's site explanation and photos for bearing service. http://www.pbase.com/fredharmon/stembearings . This will give you the general idea how to tighten the bearings. Since you are not raked I'd think 28 to 32 ft. lbs. of torque should be plenty. Tapered bearings are usually set a bit tighter then bicycle style bearings and I seem to recall Honda says mid 20s....

Stem tool on order...

Questions..
1) to you over torque to seat the bearings, the back it off and torque to spec?
Or just tighten it down and be done with it?

2) What is the torque for the top locknut?
is it just good "n" tight, or tight enough to line up one set of the tangs on the lockwasher.

 

[Gold Rush]

Stem tool on order...

Questions..
1) to you over torque to seat the bearings, the back it off and torque to spec?
Or just tighten it down and be done with it?

2) What is the torque for the top locknut?
is it just good "n" tight, or tight enough to line up one set of the tangs on the lock washer.

Torque a few pounds tight then run the steering full lock to lock five or six times. Loosen nut then torque again to desired level. I go through the lock to lock again and recheck the torque but I'm anal that way.... Put the lock ring in place and tighten the top nut just enough to align the tabs. If it doesn't line up easily take the nut off and flip it over then tighten.....

Torque setting on the cap nut is 76 ft lbs.

Have Fun.. Really, it's not a tough job and you'll get the satisfaction of doing it yourself. :xszpv::xszpv:

 

[irmagoo]

gota love this forum everyone is willing to share their knowledge!!!
- makes working on your stuff a lot easier for sure!!!!
magoo

 

[cjmitch]

Welllllll

Got the steering stem socket, and made a cardinal error...

I let the wheel drop while the stem nut was off...

Yes the stem dropped. I had to hold it up while my daughter found the threads....

No biggie....

Second goof, I did not route the throttle cables UNDER the steering head... Now I have to take it ALL apart again... DOH!!!!!!

Live and learn.

Oh yes I discoverer that that little clip that holds the throttle cables to the head, was snapped, so I ordered another one... a whopping 3 bucks.

All in all not a bad bit of work

 

[Papa Zook]

Welllllll

Got the steering stem socket, and made a cardinal error...

I let the wheel drop while the stem nut was off...

Yes the stem dropped. I had to hold it up while my daughter found the threads....

No biggie....

Second goof, I did not route the throttle cables UNDER the steering head... Now I have to take it ALL apart again... DOH!!!!!!

Live and learn.

Oh yes I discoverer that that little clip that holds the throttle cables to the head, was snapped, so I ordered another one... a whopping 3 bucks.

All in all not a bad bit of work

Pro Tip: If you are talking about the top, thin metal spring clip that holds the left and right side cables and hoses in place, I take a pair of tin snips and cut that clip in half so that you only have to hold one set of cables and hoses down at a time. It is held in place with two screws and works just as well in two halves since it is merely securing the cables in place and isn't supporting anything. It makes it much easier to get the cables and hoses back in place and doesn't require 4 sets of hands.

 

[cjmitch]

Pro Tip: If you are talking about the top, thin metal spring clip that holds the left and right side cables and hoses in place, I take a pair of tin snips and cut that clip in half so that you only have to hold one set of cables and hoses down at a time. It is held in place with two screws and works just as well in two halves since it is merely securing the cables in place and isn't supporting anything. It makes it much easier to get the cables and hoses back in place and doesn't require 4 sets of hands.

Good idea...
But no...Im referring to the small little clip that is attached to the clamp screw of the right hand fork tube.


Ok not the turn signal cancel does not work.
1) yes it is connected
2) YES the clip on the bottom of the stem IS attached to the actuator / De-actutator

IS there another plug/connector below (down deep in the neck tube)??

 

[Papa Zook]

Good idea...
But no...Im referring to the small little clip that is attached to the clamp screw of the right hand fork tube.


Ok not the turn signal cancel does not work.
1) yes it is connected
2) YES the clip on the bottom of the stem IS attached to the actuator / De-actutator

IS there another plug/connector below (down deep in the neck tube)??

Is should be one of two things...1) The small green connector plug at the top of the steering stem is not fully snapped in place, loose connection 2) The metal actuator needs re-checking to make sure it is engaging as it turns.

There is no other plug deep in the neck. The wire that runs from the actuator switch/stem goes straight up through the steering stem center to the small green plastic connector plug.

Claude, the most likely scenario is that the connector at the top of the steering stem where the wire connects to the green plug is not fully connected. There is a round rubber cover that holds it in place. Check that first. There is a tiny plastic snap tab on the green plug that is easily broken that holds the male and female plugs together. If that tab is broken it sometimes comes apart. If you find it is broken, put a small dab of clear silicone glue on it and it should stay together.

 

[cjmitch]

Is should be one of two things...1) The small green connector plug at the top of the steering stem is not fully snapped in place, loose connection 2) The metal actuator needs re-checking to make sure it is engaging as it turns.

There is no other plug deep in the neck. The wire that runs from the actuator switch/stem goes straight up through the steering stem center to the small green plastic connector plug.

Claude, the most likely scenario is that the connector at the top of the steering stem where the wire connects to the green plug is not fully connected. There is a round rubber cover that holds it in place. Check that first. There is a tiny plastic snap tab on the green plug that is easily broken that holds the male and female plugs together. If that tab is broken it sometimes comes apart. If you find it is broken, put a small dab of clear silicone glue on it and it should stay together.

Yes I had to break the tab to get it apart to tighten the head
It went back together ok but i did not use the silicone glue.
I put dielectric grease on it so that it would come apart easier

Is there a way of testing the auto-signal cancel without putting the bike back together and driving it??

 

[Papa Zook]

Yes I had to break the tab to get it apart to tighten the head
It went back together ok but i did not use the silicone glue.
I put dielectric grease on it so that it would come apart easier

Is there a way of testing the auto-signal cancel without putting the bike back together and driving it??

I dont remember if the bike has to be moving or not for the signal cancel to operate so I cant say for sure. You could recheck all I have mentioned above and try it parked with the covers off. Just crank it with your wheel straight, turn on the turn signal, then rotate your handlebars full right, then left and see if it turns them off. If it does, you're good to go, if not just tuck the instrument cluster back in place and leave it unbuttoned and take a short ride to check it before re-installing all the tupperware.

 

[Gold Rush]

Movement is required. I just went out and let my turn signal flash over a minute. Even ran the steering head lock to lock several times.

Claude I wouldn't worry about that connector catch. My '06 was broken for several years and never came apart. As long as you pushed it together fully I'm betting you will be OK...... Like Zook said. Get things where you can roll down the street safely then give it an ops check. Feel pretty sure you will be good to go... :xszpv::xszpv:

 

[FRR]

Yes.

Torquing the steering stem involves nothing to do with rebuilding the forks or replacing the front wheel bearings. Nothing comes apart, the plastic cover is removed, the top retainer nut and star washer is removed, then the main nut is torqued, then the star washer and retainer nut is replaced. It's a fairly quick and easy job if you know what you're doing. The other stuff is purely optional, as needed job.

Absolutely correct. I've known lots of guys that torqued the steering stem and it had nothing to do with replacing wheel bearings. Some of the 1500 were known for getting " wobbly" and needed to have this done periodically.

 

[cjmitch]

SUCCESS!!!!!

Opened it back up and checked the connector, it seemed like it could be pushed in a little more so I did.
It looks like that connector get narrower at the end of the run near the pins

Everything worked!!!!!

NOW...
On to the front brakes, lubing the handlebar switches, and the non functioning fog light switch & Hazard switches.

And getting my front tire turned around

- - - Updated - - -

Pro Tip: If you are talking about the top, thin metal spring clip that holds the left and right side cables and hoses in place, I take a pair of tin snips and cut that clip in half so that you only have to hold one set of cables and hoses down at a time. It is held in place with two screws and works just as well in two halves since it is merely securing the cables in place and isn't supporting anything. It makes it much easier to get the cables and hoses back in place and doesn't require 4 sets of hands.

Didn't cut it.
Instead I just put the screws in about 3 turns.
That left plenty of room to maneuver the cables in to their correct slots

 

[Gold Rush]

SUCCESS!!!!!

Opened it back up and checked the connector, it seemed like it could be pushed in a little more so I did.

It looks like that connector get narrower at the end of the run near the pins

Everything worked!!!!!

NOW...

On to the front brakes, lubing the handlebar switches, and the non functioning fog light switch & Hazard switches.

Claude once you get the little bugger out, that Hazard switch is pretty easy to just clean out and relube I use a dab of dialectric grease on the contacts and also the switch catch assembly. There is a spring in there a bit smaller then a ball point pen spring so be VERY CAREFUL taking it apart.

The fog/running light switch is another story. Many of them over heat due to too much current being pulled through the contacts. That distorts the heck out of things and the switch must be replaced. I think somewhere along the line Honda changed that and it is now routed through a relay but the early models did in fact distort... My '01 did.... Replacement switch is in the $32 $38 cost depending on where you get it.. They are year group specific so watch the part numbers..