I have a 2012 Roadsmith Trike and changed OEM tire at 7k miles to BT 45 reversed. After 8K miles noticing quite a bit of cupping, but plenty of tread left. Where should I start checking. Pressure is OK 36lbs.
Front Tire Cupping
- Thread starter JMW
- Start date
Just got rid of a tire with lots of tread but was cupping at an increasing rate. May not be able to save tire once it starts cupping. It will just get worse. Run your front tire at 41 psi and make sure it is balanced properly. Some folks use Dyna Beads, Ride-On, or other products to dynamically balance tire. This will minimize cupping, but may not completely eliminate it.
I started a thread here awhile back about or more to the point asking why run a rear tire at it maximum psi when used as a front??
After all when you are using a rear tire as a front. It isn't under anywhere near the stress it would be if indeed it was being used on the rear.
Braking is nothing compared to the stress of acceleration.
If its max is 41psi loaded as a rear, most would run it at 36psi anyway.
Direction?? Not an issue.
So where did this run it at 41 as front come from anyway??
Without rehashing the whole past thread thing.
As a 2 wheeled double darksider for over 20 years.
Run it at 36 psi for comfort or at 41 if you want a bumpier ride.
That all running it at max psi is good for.
My Michelin MPA has 17K on it.
Run at 36 psi from day one, and still looks fresh.
Cupping is in my opinion a result of the roads conditions you ride on, and 36psi is more then enough.
After all when you are using a rear tire as a front. It isn't under anywhere near the stress it would be if indeed it was being used on the rear.
Braking is nothing compared to the stress of acceleration.
If its max is 41psi loaded as a rear, most would run it at 36psi anyway.
Direction?? Not an issue.
So where did this run it at 41 as front come from anyway??
Without rehashing the whole past thread thing.
As a 2 wheeled double darksider for over 20 years.
Run it at 36 psi for comfort or at 41 if you want a bumpier ride.
That all running it at max psi is good for.
My Michelin MPA has 17K on it.
Run at 36 psi from day one, and still looks fresh.
Cupping is in my opinion a result of the roads conditions you ride on, and 36psi is more then enough.
I'm not going to pretend to be a tire expert nor a double dark side guru. I do know when talking trike front tires the 40 to 42 pounds (depending on variation factors) keeps the sidewall standing up better in hard corners. Any tire roll at all is not desirable so I'll do anything I can to reduce/eliminate it. Yes, I probably suffer a bit in the ride comfort department but I'd rather do that then have that front tire loose traction right in the middle of a hard sweeper.
Like so many other things about these machines we ride -- it's a matter of choice. When it comes right down to it, You make them and live or die by them.... :xszpv: :xszpv:
My installer specifically told me to run 41 LBS in both conversions I bought from him. He indicated that 35-36 was much too low.
- Thread starter
- #7
Thanks for the info. Would I be safe on a trip from Arkansas to Yellostone in 3 weeks if I increased to 40lbs and keep going?
Depends how bad cupping is. Had a Avon Venom with 17,000 miles on the front with cupping. Tried to make a trip from NJ to TX with this tire. Could not feel the cupping at highway speeds, but when I stopped, the cupping was getting deeper. Still had about .25" of tread in the cups, but I was concerned about the tire heating and blowing. Finally went to a Yamaha dealer in MS and had the tire replaced. Problem with replacing tire on trip is that you may not get your choice of tire. Anyway, tire was replaced, and I had peace of mind on my Texas trip. Do what you feel is right and gives you peace of mind.
skuuter
One of the Origionals
41 to 42 PSI on a Trike's Front Tire keeps the Tire Cooler, and helps prevent Sidewall Deflection/Distortion, and Squirm, and to a degree, Cupping. A Trike carries much more weight on the Front Tire and Frontend as a whole than 2-Wheelers (I verified this in another Thread with my Trike on Race Car Scales). Also on a Trike the Front Tire is subjected to actual "steering" of the Vehicle, where as 2-Wheeler steering is accomplished primarily by "Lean" and "Slight Counter Steering". A SUPER BRACE helped my Trike with the Cupping Issue also, adding about 3000 to 5000 more miles before it began. "Possibly", in the future, the Cupping Issue on Trikes may be best helped by Wider Forks and Wider Tires.....Time will tell.....ThumbUp
- Thread starter
- #10
Final decision: going to replace it and run 41lbs from now on. Me and my sweetie are worth a couple hundred bucks!!!
Jerry
I agree with most of what you said.
But for me comfort comes first as long as its not a safety issue.
As I use my bikes for commuting daily.
98% straight roads with only 4 turns each way.
Comfort is more of a value to me then longevity.
Buying tires for a bike is just a part of ownership to me.
If a few pounds costs me a few more dollars sooner then later.
Then that all a part of its maintenance.
Me Ill stay with 36 psi and not bounce my front end to death.
I find 41psi here on Florida roads is just too stiff.
Especially over tar strips and manhole covers.
As is my choice.
- - - Updated - - -
Skuuter
"in the future, the Cupping Issue on Trikes may be best helped by Wider Forks and Wider Tires.....Time will tell.....ThumbUp"
I think you hit the nail on the head.
As Im not inclined to add the newer 180 Hannigan front end that Wheels likes so much at this time.
3 grand is just a bit much.
Next front tire of mine will be the biggest thing I can get onto a OEM front even if a few modifications are needed.
I agree with most of what you said.
But for me comfort comes first as long as its not a safety issue.
As I use my bikes for commuting daily.
98% straight roads with only 4 turns each way.
Comfort is more of a value to me then longevity.
Buying tires for a bike is just a part of ownership to me.
If a few pounds costs me a few more dollars sooner then later.
Then that all a part of its maintenance.
Me Ill stay with 36 psi and not bounce my front end to death.
I find 41psi here on Florida roads is just too stiff.
Especially over tar strips and manhole covers.
As is my choice.
- - - Updated - - -
Skuuter
"in the future, the Cupping Issue on Trikes may be best helped by Wider Forks and Wider Tires.....Time will tell.....ThumbUp"
I think you hit the nail on the head.
As Im not inclined to add the newer 180 Hannigan front end that Wheels likes so much at this time.
3 grand is just a bit much.
Next front tire of mine will be the biggest thing I can get onto a OEM front even if a few modifications are needed.
http://www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/index.html
Lower inflation does not cause cupping!
I'm running 36psi this time as the ride is much smoother. Not sure who came up w/41psi to start with?
The 2 most used tires are biased and do not need inflated to max for the "side walls" to stand up.
Just another opinion as we all have one!
- - - Updated - - -
Wonder what's inside the forks of the wide front from Hannigan?????
Do not understand the fork brace deal either. Apparently I'm not "senstive" to all the flex, squirming, etc. Never noticed this!
Lower inflation does not cause cupping!
I'm running 36psi this time as the ride is much smoother. Not sure who came up w/41psi to start with?
The 2 most used tires are biased and do not need inflated to max for the "side walls" to stand up.
Just another opinion as we all have one!
- - - Updated - - -
Agreed! Three grand buys a lot of BT45's or MPA's! I may be in the minority but, I'm well satisfied w/my 4.5*rake, OEM fork springs, and my MPA, reverse rotation w/RideOn installed and 36psi.
Wonder what's inside the forks of the wide front from Hannigan?????
Do not understand the fork brace deal either. Apparently I'm not "senstive" to all the flex, squirming, etc. Never noticed this!
Make sure the BT45 is a Rear Bias Ply tire and not a Radial "R" which has happened before, they are no where near the same tire. Bias Ply rear tires are Heavier, thicker and have stiffer side walls and can handle the 41 PSI no problem / I chose Reversed and I run the Michelin Pilot Activ Rear Bias Ply tire, in 130/70H-18 from Motorcycle Superstore for 109.99 shipped to your door OR 130/70H-18 BT45 for 111.87 Either one seem to work great on a Trike / but not a Radial as the Trike pushes to hard on the sidewall trying to roll the tire to its side. As a bike you lean into turns, as a trike you corner flat so a stiffer side wall is better... Just my opinion as its worked for me for years.... and thousands of miles.
The "H" is speed rating @ 130MPH
epper:
The "H" is speed rating @ 130MPH
epper:
vary informative post.. 3.5x18 was the wides wheel i could find at this time so 120-130 is probably as wide a tire as i can run .. wonder if anyone has used narrow car wheel and made hub?? you could get into wider tire that way !! magoo
Here is a little test that you can do to see if your front tire is slipping, thus cupping on the road.
1. Go to a driveway with light sand on it.
2. put in 1st gear.
3. ease off the clutch with the steering locked all the way to the left.
4. Look to see if tire is turning or just skidding thru the sand. It should be turning
5. Do the same to the right -full lock. See if it is turning or skidding.
You would never realize this if not done in light sand. I found this by a very slow roll thru some sand.
Hope this helps
1. Go to a driveway with light sand on it.
2. put in 1st gear.
3. ease off the clutch with the steering locked all the way to the left.
4. Look to see if tire is turning or just skidding thru the sand. It should be turning
5. Do the same to the right -full lock. See if it is turning or skidding.
You would never realize this if not done in light sand. I found this by a very slow roll thru some sand.
Hope this helps
John Luciano
One Of The Origionals
That is it in a NUT SHELL. Anyone needing an answer to the question , what tire to mount on the front and why, that comes up once a month. 300 times at least, read the above quote that explains it all. Problem is people ask the question get the answer and them try to. Rationalize it to Death. This works. Do it you will be Happy .Make sure the BT45 is a Rear Bias Ply tire and not a Radial "R" which has happened before, they are no where near the same tire. Bias Ply rear tires are Heavier, thicker and have stiffer side walls and can handle the 41 PSI no problem / I chose Reversed and I run the Michelin Pilot Activ Rear Bias Ply tire, in 130/70H-18 from Motorcycle Superstore for 109.99 shipped to your door OR 130/70H-18 BT45 for 111.87 Either one seem to work great on a Trike / but not a Radial as the Trike pushes to hard on the sidewall trying to roll the tire to its side. As a bike you lean into turns, as a trike you corner flat so a stiffer side wall is better... Just my opinion as its worked for me for years.... and thousands of miles.
The "H" is speed rating @ 130MPH
One of the reasons for running 41 psi is the load rating on the tire. Particularly with a Roadsmith like I have the longer wheelbase puts more weight on the front tire. When you add cornering and braking forces, the 41 psi keeps the tire firmly connected to the rim with sufficient load rating.
The cupping issue can be related to many factors including the fact that as a trike we normally drive just off center of the lane which causes the tire to ride on the "hill" from centerline to left track which is worn. I get cupping (not bad) on the right half of tire.
I also have Traxxion cartridges and springs plus their fork brace. Early on I had medium cupping even after the Traxxion mods and then found my stem head bearing was never torqued correctly when installer put in six degree rake kit. Cupping virtually gone now except as described above due to unlevel road surface.
The cupping issue can be related to many factors including the fact that as a trike we normally drive just off center of the lane which causes the tire to ride on the "hill" from centerline to left track which is worn. I get cupping (not bad) on the right half of tire.
I also have Traxxion cartridges and springs plus their fork brace. Early on I had medium cupping even after the Traxxion mods and then found my stem head bearing was never torqued correctly when installer put in six degree rake kit. Cupping virtually gone now except as described above due to unlevel road surface.
skuuter
One of the Origionals
I bought a 2002 Wing with a Monarch conversion on it 2 years ago with 5400 original miles on it. It had the rake kit and fork brace already installed on it.
The front tire was badly cupped and for safety I had it replaced right away. The Honda dealer who works on Wings and converted Wings also recommended the back tire reversed and run at 41 psi. So that's what I did.
I have 9600 miles on it now and the tire still looks like new. I did have a low speed wobble in the steering that was annoying also with a shimmy on long sweeping turns at higher speeds. Kinda like it was scrubbing the tire back and forth. From research one of the possible reasons is bad steering bearings (Those were replace with the rake kit).
I didnt like that feeling at all so I looked for ways to make it go away. It seems some Wings have this isuue and they cant figure out how to make it go away. So I came upon a Seeley Shimmy Damper for the Wing.
http://seeleyproducts.com/products/index.html
I now have no shimmy at any speed and I believe there will also be no front tire cupping in my future ever.
The front tire was badly cupped and for safety I had it replaced right away. The Honda dealer who works on Wings and converted Wings also recommended the back tire reversed and run at 41 psi. So that's what I did.
I have 9600 miles on it now and the tire still looks like new. I did have a low speed wobble in the steering that was annoying also with a shimmy on long sweeping turns at higher speeds. Kinda like it was scrubbing the tire back and forth. From research one of the possible reasons is bad steering bearings (Those were replace with the rake kit).
I didnt like that feeling at all so I looked for ways to make it go away. It seems some Wings have this isuue and they cant figure out how to make it go away. So I came upon a Seeley Shimmy Damper for the Wing.
http://seeleyproducts.com/products/index.html
I now have no shimmy at any speed and I believe there will also be no front tire cupping in my future ever.
skuuter
One of the Origionals
I'm gonna' add this, but I'm not advocating or recommending it.......my very first Michelin Pilot Activ Tire I used on my Gold Wing 1800 Trike lasted thousands of miles, but cupped early on due to running 36 psi in it. I "un-cupped" it to a point by running 50 psi in it for a week riding REALLY SLOW SPEEDS ON VERY FAMILIAR LOW/NO TRAFFIC ROADS for a week, and airing it up to 60 psi to sit over night....."AGAIN", this is not recommended by ME or TRIKE TALK...just some information for some of You REALLY EXPERIENCED Motorcycle Gearheads, Riders, and Mechanics.....
JMW -- Im running the BT45 at 41-42 psi. Also using Dyna Beads
Where in Sherwood? I'm on Coulter Road
Where in Sherwood? I'm on Coulter Road
Air pressure should be 41 lbs in the front and you will not have the cupping problem.
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