Updise down trans

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Upside down trans

This is an early pic back when i was building frame and linkages.
vwmaniac:
I doubt you will run an full auto upside down. Anything can be done, but it would be major. Most auto trans have an oil sump and pump. they work the clutches with hyd pressure. This would be hard to flip. But a stick trans is just a bath, no pump and pressure, flipping is drilling some oil ports, plugging vents, installing new vents and getting the oil level right. Now on the bright side is that if the auto has the two bolt on side covers the ring can be flipped to reverse the output rotation. I am not sure what years but vw went to a single side cover trans and I have no experience with the auto trans. I have seen an early auto stick run mid engine in a two wheel motorcycle though. Now all these variations of auto could be IRS and there would be no need to run upside down, could raise or lower it to what you desire without the camber issue. It would be wider than mine but I made mine smaller than usual.
It was not very expensive to build because I already had most of the VW stuff from a hot rod I build when I was young. It had been sitting in the shed for the past 30+ years.

 

[vwmaniac]

Thanks for the info. It would be easier for me to flip the ring gear in the 4 speed than what you have done,grinn.
I have done an autostick already, just flip the ring gear and away you go.
On the automatic, I was told it'd be like doing a corvair trannie, you would need to have a cam that runs backwards and the oil pump also and the motor could run the opposite way[backwards] and would work, also would need a starter that runs backwards too,. been thinking about trying one , but who knows.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Well I just wanted to be incredibly low and small like a chopper motorcycle insted of car like.

So what kind of gear ratios do you guys run? Also tire diameter? I had to build my tranny twice to get an aceptable setup.

 

[vwmaniac]

Looks great, how is the heat off the motor around your legs?

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

The heat is no different than any other air cooled motorcycle. Do not feel any heat from it while moving. When idling at a long stop light you start to feel the heat rising up from the motor. What is worse than the heat is the noise level. It sounds cool but is terribly loud. You get tired of hearing it all the time. One thing I did not know was that with the front engine you have too minimize the amount of trail on the front end. Mine has too much trail, hard to steer. Want to make a leading link for it. But then again the stiff front gives me something to hang on too when on the throttle.

 

[trikertroy]

When the radiator fan kicks on a water cooled motorcycle, it throws a LOT of heat back on the rider... Much more then any air cooled bike or even a V8 trike with the rad in back..

It is VERY convient to have the engine in the rear,, out of the way of everything and allowing more passenger room..Quieter and cooler for the riders too... And rear engined trike can be made to handle EXCELLENT.ThumbUp (ask me how i know)

My question is, do front engined VW trikes REALLY handle any better then a decently set up VW trike? :Shrug:

Iv ridden several mid and front engined VW trikes over the years, but none really decently built to modern standards. So I dont know (yet)

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

trikertoy:
First a disclaimer- I have built only one trike. I have not had or rode a rear engine vw trike. Everything I think I know about them is from reading and study. I have my own opinions, but it may only be opinion not fact.
Typically a rear engine trike is wider, longer and heavier than what I built. This would make it a lot better at handling the road and various bumpy road conditions. A little mid engine trike might be able to twist around at low speed (in a parking lot for example) better than a rear engine trike. I fully believe a full size vw width rear engined trike would be a lot more comfortable on the road and handle the road better than most any front engined trike (including motorcyle based).
If you were to build a front engine vw and make it the same width, length and wieght as a "normal" rear engine vw. Then set it up correctly. It would most likely be comparable to a rear engine set up. But why bother?
Mine is this way because it is what I wanted. I did not want one like yours, his, or the other guys down the road. I like mine being so different that most people dont know what it is. Most people guess a beemer or guzzi. Then the very few that know are amazed that it can be done that way.
A couple interesting notes about handling. I thought with the engine in front it would not be wheelie prone. Uhh wrong. It is real touchy on the throttle. Anything more than a light touch on the throttle and it is going straight ahead. Front tire has very little infuence LOL. It runs (acceleration) like a motorcycle. My friends have Hardleys and I have no problem keeping up or even out accelerating some of them. Mine wont do a "donut" at all. I caint get it to whip around on wet pavement or even dew covered clover. That might be a slight advantage of a mid engine.
So the bottom line to me and the way I think......Build whatever You like and enjoy it for what it is!

 

[lasso]

A small note to everyone. I've seen this gentlemans mid-engine trike and spoke with hime personally. His trike is a engineering marvel and he's a helluva nice guy.

 

[trikertroy]

A wheelie prone front engined trike? hummmmmm I drove a very short one that had way too much weight on the rear and was VERY tall as well. It was really scary to drive..

Id love to see some pics of your set up.. Im glad you like the trike.. Iv learned that not everyone wants a sports car handleing trike or a big lexo hiway crusier style trikes... EVERYONE has their own desires..

To slow down the wheelie and touchie throttle problems, it is possible to slow down the throttle and clutch action with longer pedals and a slower throttle action....I use a 8to1 pedal ratio on the clutch and brake on mine and that seems to work out well. My rear engined trike are not prone to lift the front wheel at all.. Rev it pu and pop the clutch and they will wheelie..(of course)

One of my latest trike uses a Honda Accord FWD drivetrain..so it is mid-engined.. The heat is still behind the riders and will not wheelie at all..

Anyway, Id love to see some pics..I love it when a VW trike blows the overpriced Harleys off the road!! ThumbUp

note: the Accord drivetrain will balance on its two wheels, without the trike frame in place...So no front or rear extra weight.. Its still fairly lite on the front and has very easy steering, and zips thru the corners super quick and super smooth.. I really like theses FWDonors and their excellent stock suspensions.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Hey lasso!
Thanks man. Was good to meet you and see some other trikes out there. Thanks for the invite, hope to ride down the road one day with yall on the the v-dubs. I dont think I had ever realized just how small mine is compared to a converted motorcycle untill I got to be near one.

trikertoy:
I think the clutch action is ok. Sorta stuck with the ratio of the honda twist throttle I have right now. But I think you are right a slower twist would help. I have already worked some of the touchy-ness out of it. I found some aftermarket gears from Rancho and went with a 3.44 ring and pinion 1.26 third and .82 fourth. Then I let the back end down just a little to let my wheels camber some. Now that the tires are not on a full contact patch when I twist on it it spins instead. But it is still difficult to two up on it. It rides a lot better with two up but you hafta be carefull on the throttle. Maybe if I put some flywheel weight back on it? You run many stroker motors on yours? You run a full flywheel (stock) or a lightened one? O and yes it is probably have too much motor on a small wheelbase. The parts were from a drag car I had when I was young. With the crown super-diff is has always wanted to pull with both wheels even though it is not a "posi traction". And I never pop the clutch. I have way too many home made major drive components that I dont want to fail. I roll out and have the clutch all the way hooked before ever twisting on the throttle hard.

 

[trikertroy]

[/IMG]

This is my Daily Sweetness...My main ride for 5yrs.. 812lbs.. 1915cc 120hp engine with counterbalanced 69mm crank. The engine is super sweet.. nice and driveable with a lot of low end torque and tons of hi end horsepower..

It has a very stiff chassis, and a dynamic suspension,, not huge tires and goes around corners VERY quickly... I dont mean a drift around corner, but all three wheels holding on for dear life!!

Iv "raced" my buddy with a dial in if 12.99ET and would beat him by about three car lenghts at the end each time... He would hole shot me pretty good as I have to ride the clutch to keep the front wheel down, but once lauched I would catch him a little past half way.. Im sure wheelie bars and some serious practice would help get it even quicker... But there is no need.. I know its way fast enuff for anything I want to do with it,,(except raceing)

More important then the horsepower (well olmost) is how stable, save, solid and secure it feels when driving it.. It has a fantastic platform!! ThumbUp

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

trikertoy:
Waaaay cool. Wish I could take a ride around town next to you. Like I said before, wider, longer and heavier than what I built. So I would completely believe it handles the road very well. Mine is a 2110 160hp with a couterbalanced 82mm crank. Drives fine on the hiway and cruising the back roads. Nothing extra fast on the twisties have to be careful with the throttle. Really dis-like the bumpy back roads (there is one going to our favorite riding place) and I have scared myself trying to keep up with my buddies that ride v-rods and rockers. They can miss more of the bumps and it is crazy enough to go that much over the posted limit anyway, so I back off.
Back to the question... You run a light flywheel? I have a very light one on mine. Throttle response is intantaneous, but I have been thinking a full weight one may smooth it out some. Slow down the throttle respone but not really reduce final output hp.
Whatcha think?

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

New link to pics

Bike - a set on Flickr