I was on another H-D wed site and there was a discussion on sumping. They never said what sumping is. Can someone tell me what sumping is? Has anyone on this forum experienced sumping? Curious minds would like to know. 
Sumping?
- Thread starter NC Triker
- Start date
I was on another H-D wed site and there was a discussion on sumping. They never said what sumping is. Can someone tell me what sumping is? Has anyone on this forum experienced sumping? Curious minds would like to know.
Think sump pump - relocating a liquid elseware :Shrug:
Sumping is when/if the check valve in the oil pump is not working properly and too much oil ends up in the crankcase ....And can cause a lot of blow-bye into the air filter among other problems..
Jack Klarich
Gold Member
The oil pump cannot keep up with volume of oil, too much oil in the case, BIG loos of power
Bad Ju Ju with the M8 is being reported
H D is on oil pump #3 or 4 now to solve this problem
Bad Ju Ju with the M8 is being reported
H D is on oil pump #3 or 4 now to solve this problem
Jack, have you heard if the S&S oil pump recently released for the M8 solves the issue?
I had initially thought the sumping issue was just with riders that did stage 2, 3 or 4 upgrades
Jack Klarich
Gold Member
DK Custom Products
Sponsor
Even the Twin Cams can have sumping issues. As the crank shifts, even a little, the oil pump is not as strong to scavenge all the oil out. We've seen this more than a few times. (this leaves oil in the bottom of the engine, the flywheels must travel thru that oil, causing the loss of power that Jack mentioned)
The M8 has a variety of oil problems....sumping and oil migration....but only on some, and the reason(s) seem to be unclear, thus no fix seems to be working.
Aftermarket fixes will undoubtedly void the warranty...replacing internal parts of the engine are a sure way to do that.
Rumor is that HD is working on new cases for the M8 in an effort to fix this on upcoming models.
Kevin
The M8 has a variety of oil problems....sumping and oil migration....but only on some, and the reason(s) seem to be unclear, thus no fix seems to be working.
Aftermarket fixes will undoubtedly void the warranty...replacing internal parts of the engine are a sure way to do that.
Rumor is that HD is working on new cases for the M8 in an effort to fix this on upcoming models.
Kevin
Classic Triumphs have this problem if they sit too long without being started, but the oil goes back where it's suppose to once you start the bike. Not sure if this is the case with Harleys. Nice to see some new Harleys have similar issues as 50/60 year old British bikes. Geez.
When i dropped my trike off at the dealership i was talking to a tech and he said he was working on a trike with 420 miles on it blowing oil out of the air cleaner.
I'll bet if you ask the Service writer at different dealer...The'll tell you they never ''Heard'' of it...In order to get a job as a service writer you have to be hard of Hearing...
My 91 evo will puke if sittin a while, just put a clean drain pan under the breather ,catch it ,then dump it bback in
My Tri-Glide sumped after the dealer installed big bore cylinders. It had the power of a Honda 250 rebel, and struggled to get above 3500 rpms. They replaced the oil pump with the new one (4th revision) and so far, so good.....
YMMV
Lon
YMMV
Lon
NHBAGGER
400+ Posts
Other than a loss of power or excess oil on the air filter, any other telltale symptoms to watch for?
Jack Klarich
Gold Member
Heat, top end rattling noise
I wonder if its similar to Hydro -lock....Except with oil and not water...
When my Sons were young they at times went in water just a little too deep with the ATC's...And lock up the engine, I would pull the spark plug and turn the engine over with the pull start...The water would blow out the cylinder then put the plug back in. Those Honda's always started right up and would run for ever..
Jack Klarich
Gold Member
The sumping is TOO much oil in the bottom of the case
I guess if enuff oil gathered it could mimic Hydro locking a bit
tho with hydro locking if you dont get the liquid out of the cylinders like you did it would be easy to bend a rod = Very bad JU JU
probably over filled the oil tank. many don't let the eng idle before shutting it off
Wmitz
200+ Posts
Sumping
My tri glide had an issue this weekend, it’s in the shop. Loss of power, engine shaking, smell of oil, sounds like it is missing, maybe one or two of the plugs oil fouled. Just turned 2300 mi. Happened on decelerationabout 2700 rpm. Had to run it about 75 miles to get to the dealer, so that gave it a chance to clear it up a bit. Waiting to hear.
My tri glide had an issue this weekend, it’s in the shop. Loss of power, engine shaking, smell of oil, sounds like it is missing, maybe one or two of the plugs oil fouled. Just turned 2300 mi. Happened on decelerationabout 2700 rpm. Had to run it about 75 miles to get to the dealer, so that gave it a chance to clear it up a bit. Waiting to hear.
When that happened did the check engine light go on....?
Wmitz
200+ Posts
No, I didn’t see it. The exhaust got loud and it started running rough, didn’t have full power. The exhaust got rather hot, but cooled then got hot again. I kept going not pushing to hard, as I heard the miss. Engine wasn’t rattling or making strange noises. Going up hills was harder with the miss, but it wasn’t running on one cylinder either.
Wmitz
200+ Posts
Just got a call from the dealer, said it was the plug wires came loose. Tech took it for an 18 test ride with no issues. Going to pick it up tomorrow, also going to put it thru some testing to be sure. Still a bit wary, but hopefully that’s it.
Jack Klarich
Gold Member
Strange it did not set a code
Did anyone bother to scan it?
It surely had a mis fire, the Delphi system is pretty darn sensitive to mis fires
I'm surprised he didn't get a code, Three times the same scenario, I was decelerating/engine braking down a long hill, And as i hit level ground and started to accelerate, Bam check engine light..Co sensor....All 3 times it was one of the hottest days... When i got home i just cleared it myself...
Wmitz
200+ Posts
That’s one of the questions I’ll have tomorrow. I’ll get the paperwork and see what it says. Maybe I missed it, bit I don’t remember seeing it or any codes.
Jack Klarich
Gold Member
https://www.fuelmotousa.com/p-29661-harley-trouble-codes.html
Follow this link and scan it your self, but Do ask the dealer if they scaned it with their digital tech
Wmitz
200+ Posts
https://www.fuelmotousa.com/p-29661-harley-trouble-codes.html
Follow this link and scan it your self, but Do ask the dealer if they scaned it with their digital tech
Thanks.
If the sumping continues long enough then the motor gets very hot and vital parts are starved for lubrication which can and with enough time will ead to catastrophic failure and complete engine rebuild or replacement. Sumping is nothing to shrug off and take lightly.
Wmitz
200+ Posts
One of the first things I’ll do is check the oil. See if it’s fresh, like brand new. It’s got 1300miles since the last oil change. I don’t think SMHD would do anything bogus, they seem like good people. But a quick check brings peace of mind. I’ll head to the dragon and then to the skyway to make sure it’s all good.
Wmitz
200+ Posts
Terminal
Well got the bike back this morning, all seemed well. That euphoria lasted 45 miles. Same thing, my daughter and I stopped for a break, checked the oil it was low, headed back to the dealer. Long story short waited 25 min and the tech was on the phone with the mothership, motor is coming apart, everything has to be documented with pics. There goes riding in July and a part of August. one other thing no check engine light came on.
Well got the bike back this morning, all seemed well. That euphoria lasted 45 miles. Same thing, my daughter and I stopped for a break, checked the oil it was low, headed back to the dealer. Long story short waited 25 min and the tech was on the phone with the mothership, motor is coming apart, everything has to be documented with pics. There goes riding in July and a part of August. one other thing no check engine light came on.
I would of ran the snot out of it till POOF!
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