Is this normal overheating ???

[GoldWingrGreg]

I was on a ride yesterday with 8 GL1800s, when over the CB, one rider was advising us all to watch our temp gauges. The climate was sunny and between 95-97 degrees, and for about 10 miles we traveled, as a group, between 15-20mph. They were all 2006s and up. Of the 8 Wings, 3 reported seeing their temperature gauges climb, while the other 5 didn't. I'm comparing here the 3 with high needle movement to mine.

- 2013 high temp on gauge - 2up combined weight 400lbs

- 2010 high temp on gauge - 2up combined weight 400lbs

- 2008 high temp on gauge - trike solo weight 220lbs

- my bike 2007 no needle movement combined weight 395lbs pulling a trailer. My bike had by far the highest mileage on the ODM with 157,000 miles, and it has no restrictions for radiator airflow, and the coolant has been changed at least every 24k.

A healthy cooling system is not rocket science. It mainly boiled down to 2 reasons my temp. gauge needle didn't move and theirs did.

- a "by the book," well maintained, cooling system

- no accessories blocking airflow in or out of the radiator grills

- one could argue this ... but under the circumstances above, should it be considered ???

Owner's Manual "

Normally, the needle on your temperature gauge will rise to a point aboutmidway between C (cold) and H (hot) and then level off. Hot weather maycause the needle to rise higher than normal. So will temporary stress such asclimbing a hill. If you’re stuck in stop-and-go traffic, the needle may climbsome, but the radiator fan is designed to prevent overheating. Be aware of thesevariations as you monitor the gauge.

If your vehicle is operated at sustained speeds between 10 and 15 miles perhour in high ambient temperature conditions, you may experience hightemperature gauge readings.

If the temperature gauge rises, shifting to second gear or altering your speed(either faster or slower) may reduce the temperature reading. If the indicatorreaches the red zone, as soon as it is safe to do so, pull over and let the engineidle until the indicator drops."

 

[pwhoever]

I think that these bikes, especially the 06 on up (bigger radiators), the instructions in owners manual will help with temporarily solving the situation so at least you can continue but doesnt solve the problem. I think your information is more important. I think Honda's owners manual instructions are not as clear as they should be and describe a situation that should not be considered normal and should state that. If only some are experiencing the issue while more are not, then the ones that are have a problem...

In my situation, there were 3 of us, a 2010 solo towing an Aspen camper, a 2010 trike 2-up towing an Aspen camper, and myself, a 2007 trike solo towing an Aspen camper. Mine was the only one showing major overheating and in the situations you described. Since none of us had anything blocking the airflow for the radiators, the only assumption I can make is mine was a question of proper maintenance. I had never changed the antifreeze in the 2+ years I have owned it.

I did go through tightening as many hose clamps I could find because mine had a slight smell of antifreeze since I owned it and seemed to stop after that. I just never even thought about changing the antifreeze and don't know how old it was or the type it was. I'm sure that was a big contributor to the issue.

 

[pwhoever]

There is another possible variable to add and I know it will open up a can of worms...

Of the 3 that reported overheating issues, how many of them had a belly pan installed? And the ones that didn't have the issue, same question.

I failed to ask this of my group on the road but finally found out today. The other 2 do not have belly pans where I do. I put mine on out of precaution for the coolant bottle after reading about others reported damage to theirs. I have been reading as many threads as I can about belly pans and the majority all say it has no effect. Several have posted about riding in 100+ temps and no issues. I'm still up in the air about it but would like to hear about your results. Thanks.

 

[paws]

Belly pans (vented, ordered from Wingstuff) installed on both our 2008 GL1800 trikes - been 6 years and no problems.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

There is another possible variable to add and I know it will open up a can of worms...

Of the 3 that reported overheating issues, how many of them had a belly pan installed? And the ones that didn't have the issue, same question.

That's a great question that I'm sure will be forever debated. I can guarantee you that if I saw any reason to blame belly pans, I'd be all over it. If you follow my posts ... "I am all over" properly maintaining a Wing and constantly preaching about doing a full inspection of the cooling system ... anything short is a potential problem.

What I do see, are many Wings that come here for service, belly pan or not, that are lucky to get any service attention at all. Sometimes it has to do with the owners not having a place they can trust to take them, or the owner has been doing a DIY type service, or the owner can not afford to have it professionally maintained. Usually the result is a poorly maintained cooling system. At best, it only gets an anti-freeze change.

One of the CB conversations going on was one guy saying to the other "Be at my house tomorrow and we'll change the coolant." I don't wear a helmet, so I can receive but am not able to transmit and partake in the conversation. Probably new coolant will be installed into a system that has a small leak (low on coolant and possibly the reason for the high gauge), and the chemicals in the new coolant will clean out the leak more, and make it worst.

I would not be surprised if some of the 3, or maybe all, have belly pans. I'm sure all 3 Wings are maintained by the owner.

Here is what I do know about belly pans and cooling systems. They must be removed when doing cooling system maintenance; thus, increasing the cost. During a pressure test, a pan will trap an anti-freeze drip from hitting the floor, and can cause mis-diagnosis. Also, a pan always has to come off to service and inspect the recovery tank. It's not uncommon to replace cracking recovery hoses or the one going into the recovery tank.

Belly pans do trap heat once the engine is turned off. Such heat can cause rubber parts to dry rot and need replaced sooner.

Of the 5 Wings that I've owned, all have been well maintained, none have had a climbing needle, and none have had a belly pan.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Here's an interesting one.

- 2008 trike

- 40,000 on the ODM

- no belly pan

- coolant level cold: not touching stick

- coolant level under radiator cap: full

- coolant level when checked hot: 1" above high mark on stick

- rad. cap: passed pressure test

- fan blow: hot and with even pressure. However, could hear a noticeable drop in RPMs when the fans came on.

- battery test: good, and the batt. connections are clean.

Here is the issue. At idle in my shop (temp 78-80 deg.), the temp. needle moved into the red before the fans came on. They ran long enough for the needle to drop 2 white marks (3/4 way to red).

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Here is the issue. At idle in my shop (temp 78-80 deg.), the temp. needle moved into the red before the fans came on. They ran long enough for the needle to drop 2 white marks (3/4 way to red).

Update to post #6. Further testing revealed that the fans were coming on correctly, and the coolant temperature was not hot as the gauge indicated. In this case, there is a problem with the gauge's circuit. It is probably a temp. sensor, but at this time the customer is declining repair.

 

[Sidecarbill]

Just wondering can you use a scan tool on a Wing? They work great on cars. You can see coolant temperature and alot of other info.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Just wondering can you use a scan tool on a Wing? They work great on cars. You can see coolant temperature and alot of other info.

Honda has something similar, but it's completely proprietary and works on the 2004s - 2010 only.

 

[hogmemberisold]

This sounds like a problem that has been hammered on for years. The radiator fans are trying to blow the heat out the front of the bike while the bike is going rather slow with the air trying to be pushed thru the front by the bike going forward. Almost stagnate air flow. One "fix" was to reverse the fans so they blow out the sides instead of the front.

What you describe sounds a lot like that.

Maybe?

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

This sounds like a problem that has been hammered on for years. The radiator fans are trying to blow the heat out the front of the bike while the bike is going rather slow with the air trying to be pushed thru the front by the bike going forward. Almost stagnate air flow. One "fix" was to reverse the fans so they blow out the sides instead of the front.

What you describe sounds a lot like that.

Maybe?

Actually ... what I am suggesting is the importance of maintaining a Wing correctly. The reverse fan blow method are for the ones who don't. Keep in mind, that when they're maintained correctly, they don't have overheating issues. When group riding, and everyone is staying together, and some are overheating, but the others are not, the ones poorly maintained are most likely the ones having problems. The other possibility are chrome pieces, or chrome grills around the radiator openings that restricting any air movement through the radiators can be a factor too.

 

[hogmemberisold]

Actually ... what I am suggesting is the importance of maintaining a Wing correctly. The reverse fan blow method are for the ones who don't. Keep in mind, that when they're maintained correctly, they don't have overheating issues. When group riding, and everyone is staying together, and some are overheating, but the others are not, the ones poorly maintained are most likely the ones having problems. The other possibility are chrome pieces, or chrome grills around the radiator openings that restricting any air movement through the radiators can be a factor too.

Oh, it was obvious that was what you were suggesting, and from what I've read, maintenance of the cooling system wasn't a factor, but I agree could have an effect.

My bike is a 2005 and has done it since it was new.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Oh, it was obvious that was what you were suggesting, and from what I've read, maintenance of the cooling system wasn't a factor, but I agree could have an effect.

My bike is a 2005 and has done it since it was new.

I know ... many believe that. On the 2001-05, the dead air that you are describing is more likely. Their fan blow is very week, and they shut off about 14mph. Around that speed, dead air can occur. However, not likely on the 2006s and up. From that year on, the fan's blow with considerable force, and turn off long before dead air at the radiators occurs. They also have variable blow. The earlier ones have one speed on/off. In the example given in post #1, all are 2006 and newer.

Mine had the highest mileage, and I was pulling a trailer and had normal needle movement (none). We were all riding at the same speed. The others should have needle movement like mine. Something about the Wings with a high needle movement was different. In the above example, a common factor is this ... they all do their own maintenance, or ignore it.

On my 2004 I could smell coolant many times when I rode it. I too bought it new. Under warrantee I complained about it 7 times ... each time the dealer could find no leak. A few years later, when discussing with one of their techs what they do about Wings with coolant leaks, he replied "what leaks." Further discussion revealed that they didn't even have a cooling system pressure tester. Basically, all their cooling system services, or cooling checks were done incorrectly. No wonder they could never find my leaks. Could your Wing be serviced like that ???

 

[Tricycleman]

This sounds like a problem that has been hammered on for years. The radiator fans are trying to blow the heat out the front of the bike while the bike is going rather slow with the air trying to be pushed thru the front by the bike going forward. Almost stagnate air flow. One "fix" was to reverse the fans so they blow out the sides instead of the front.

What you describe sounds a lot like that.

Maybe?

Okay I got a question here reversing the flow of the fan. I assume this is done by turning the fan blades around? Electrically this is not a 3-phase motor thus unless I'm not understanding the electrical portion there's no way electrically you can switch the wires to make that motor run the opposite way correct?

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Okay I got a question here reversing the flow of the fan. I assume this is done by turning the fan blades around? Electrically this is not a 3-phase motor thus unless I'm not understanding the electrical portion there's no way electrically you can switch the wires to make that motor run the opposite way correct?

I have no idea. Why would yo want to do that ???

 

[Tricycleman]

Radiator fan flow Direction

Okay question here I was told today by Honda and a Honda mechanic that the GL 1800 fans suck air in from the sides in first gear and when you shift into 2nd they reverse air flow and blow air out sucking their air from the front of the bike which would make sense as you're going down the road faster.

Any comments from anyone as this sounds fishy to me I've never heard my fans quit and reverse Direction between shift between first and second.

 

[Tricycleman]

This sounds like a problem that has been hammered on for years. The radiator fans are trying to blow the heat out the front of the bike while the bike is going rather slow with the air trying to be pushed thru the front by the bike going forward. Almost stagnate air flow. One "fix" was to reverse the fans so they blow out the sides instead of the front.

What you describe sounds a lot like that.

Maybe?

I'm being told by Honda they only suck air from the side in first gear and once you're in 2nd second gear they reverse and blow air out

 

[hogmemberisold]

I'm being told by Honda they only suck air from the side in first gear and once you're in 2nd second gear they reverse and blow air out

Not true on the earlier bikes (01-05).

I just checked the wiring diagram and one side of the fan goes direct to ground and the other side goes through a relay to +.... no way for reversal electrically.

 

[Mick]

http://goldwing.eurekaboy.com/fanreversal.htm

 

[Tricycleman]

Not true on the earlier bikes (01-05).

I just checked the wiring diagram and one side of the fan goes direct to ground and the other side goes through a relay to +.... no way for reversal electrically.

Yeah I just checked the wiring diagram on my repair manual CD disc for 08 - 2010 and it does the same goes directly to ground. Unsure about 2012 and newer I do know that there were some changes made from 2012 to newer bikes so unsure what year Wings he was referring to this or what he might have been drinking in his coffee.

So depending on the mounting collar on the fan one might be able to flip the fan blades over to reverse air flow. Going to have my bike tour down over the winter to do a lot of preventive maintenance this maybe one item I look at will keep you all posted.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

All GL1800 fans push air forward. The fans on the 2001-05 will cycle on/off from 0-14mph. On the 2006+ they cycle on/off from 0-20mph. The fans on the 2006+ blow considerably stronger, and at times will be variable speed.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

So depending on the mounting collar on the fan one might be able to flip the fan blades over to reverse air flow.

Why would you want to do that ???

 

[Tricycleman]

Why would you want to do that ???

I wouldn't want to mess with the engineering aspects that Honda has incorporated it's just one of the gentlemen remarks in this tread talked about the stagnant air that it was creating. On my 08 I know once I get into 2nd or 3rd gear the fans will shut off haven't paid much attention to what speed I'm traveling. At a lower speed like first gear they will cycle in and out and I figured this was related to a sensor in the water jacket somewhere that would sense the heat and once the air was cooled in the radiators and made it into the engine this turned the fans off until that portion of cool water heated up.

06 are variable speed???? I assume that speed is determined by temperature of the coolant??

I know on the V8 trike I built I had this issue with radiator fan and found that sucking the air through the radiator was more efficient and better results than trying to push the air through.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

06 are variable speed???? I assume that speed is determined by temperature of the coolant??

The 2006-current have variable speed. Unfortunately, knowing exactly what determines fan speed is not known for sure at this level, but I would guess it has to do with temperature. The reason Honda pushes air forward with their fans is to hot air off the rider.

 

[cjmitch]

Okay I got a question here reversing the flow of the fan. I assume this is done by turning the fan blades around? Electrically this is not a 3-phase motor thus unless I'm not understanding the electrical portion there's no way electrically you can switch the wires to make that motor run the opposite way correct?

The pitch angle of the fan will not blow air backwards if the motor polarity is reersed