Front end drift

[halftrack65]

Default Trike front end slides on turns

Can anyone give me a reason that the trike fells like it is pushing in the turns. Just had my 1800 gold wing trike d at the factory champion down in Garden grove. Calif. Have not road it much but the little that I have it seems to file like it is pushing. Is there a fix for this with out spending a lot of money. thanks Halftrack65http://www.triketalk.com/forum/images/smilies/smileygarden_de_banana7.gif

 

[Gold Rush]

Default Trike front end slides on turns

Can anyone give me a reason that the trike fells like it is pushing in the turns. Just had my 1800 gold wing trike d at the factory champion down in Garden grove. Calif. Have not road it much but the little that I have it seems to file like it is pushing. Is there a fix for this with out spending a lot of money. thanks Halftrack65http://www.triketalk.com/forum/images/smilies/smileygarden_de_banana7.gif

Pushing in corners is very common with newer riders. Part is due to inexperience but most is due to the bike set up. If you still have an OEM type front tire get it swapped out with a Bridgstone BT45 or Michlen Pilot Activ (MPA). Next get the front raked. Get hold of Zook on which degree.... Probably a 4.5 but maybe a 6 degree. If you have adjustable rear suspension tighten it up just a bit to reduce body roll. You'll feel more confident and the trike will behave better.

There is a "Sticky" thread in the Honda forum with all sorts of good cornering tips. GOOD LUCK! :xszpv: :xszpv:

 

[CyberVet65]

I had my trike and thought that the front end was going to slide off the road. Put a MPA on the front and it helped a lot. Last winter I put Zook's 6 degree rake on and it was like installing power steering! I can get around corners with little "push/pull". Works great.

 

[cavie]

You will feel the bike try to go straight all the way thru the turn. Laws of physics. You need to push/pull all the way thru the turn. This takes the place of the lean on two wheels. Rake kit/easy steer will help.

 

[2Trikez]

Have YOU checked tire pressures?? They may have too much air in front tire or too much in rear tires. Check those shock pressures as well.

I'd also take it back to see if the have some "binding issue" with the frame. Over tightened bolts, etc.

2TZ

 

[Ozarkryder]

Welcome to the triking world halftrack65!
I think the key to the feeling you are having is, (quote)"Just had my 1800 gold wing trike d".
On a 2 wheeler when you turn the bike leans over, and the rider with it. This puts the percieved forces down through the rider and the bike into the road. On a trike, as in a cage, there is no lean so the forces in a turn tend to push the mass of the rider and trike to the outside of the turn. It's physics - conservation of momentem and such.Totally normal and nothing to be worried about, with miles you'll get used to it. Unless the front tire is actually skidding in turns you are most likely good with the current set up.
The rake kit (like adding power steering!) and a Pilot Activ or BT 45 (rear tire put on backwards) will help, but the feeling of the trike wanting to go straight is a law of nature.
On spirited rides through the twisties here in the Ozarks I'll shift in the seat to to the inside and lean a bit into the curve to counteract some to the forct to the outside of the turn.

 

[Veritas44]

"Shifting" One's position in the seat (COG) works on ATV's and the old 3-Wheel ATC's but has VERY little if any effect on our Trike conversions.
It will counter the effects of centrifugal/centripetal Force affecting the Rider and how he "feels" (the effects on the Trike are psychosomatic only) but won't translate to the Unit and definitely will not counter how that Force is affecting the Front of the Trike.

As others have said,,, That's just the Laws of Nature/Physics.

P.s. IF the Rider weighs 600+ lbs and can hang off the side about the same height as the COG of the Engine,,,,
THEN it would really do something other than "feeling".

 

[Ozarkryder]

"Shifting" One's position in the seat (COG) works on ATV's and the old 3-Wheel ATC's but has VERY little if any effect on our Trike conversions.
It will counter the effects of centrifugal/centripetal Force affecting the Rider and how he "feels" (the effects on the Trike are psychosomatic only) but won't translate to the Unit and definitely will not counter how that Force is affecting the Front of the Trike.

As others have said,,, That's just the Laws of Nature/Physics.

P.s. IF the Rider weighs 600+ lbs and can hang off the side about the same height as the COG of the Engine,,,,
THEN it would really do something other than "feeling".

Oh, yes. Shifting in the seat and leaning my body to the inside of a curve is for the riders comfort, I'm not near heavy enough to effect the mass of the trike itself. Leaning into the curve lessens the feeling of being pushed sideways, making running fast curves a bit more comfortable. Doesn't make a lot of difference until I am past the suggested speed on the yellow warning sign.

Now if a rider masses 600+ lbs that would be putting 1/2 the weight of the average conversion on top to the trike, and that would defiantly move the COG around!

 

[Veritas44]

+1 to That ThumbUp

There IS a way to counter the "weak spot" (single front Tire/Wheel) on a triangular unit during Vector Changes without negative effects being created while in straight-line motion.

When steering a Trike, it is a lot like a Football Running Back. The Back gets the handoff and runs forward. When he sees issues and decides to suddenly cut, all that speed in forward direction must be quickly altered as he wishes to change Vector and "cut" to a side but also maintain his speed. Just like a Trike when the steering input begins and the velocity remains pretty much the same. The Back will plant his foot (like a Trike front Tire & Wheel) as an anchor and push off toward the new Vector. At that initial moment of plant, most of his force of motion is transferred to that plant foot. The weak areas are foot, ankle, knee, and hip as well as the bones connecting the linking joints (with varying degrees of force and torque depending on how his leg is bent and positioned) and if weak in one or more areas will fail to hold that abrupt change. Of course asphalt & concrete won't give like Turf or sod so we don't have to include that in the analogy. But once that moment of change or cut is passed and his weak areas didn't fail, he's off again in new direction to finish or repeat the process. Trike's components, unlike the Back, will not fail in the plant foot nor will the street give like sod/turf so the resulting Physics produces the push in the plant-point and will cause the chattering and skipping back toward the original direction.

The key for a Trike to overcome this inevitable Dynamic is to have a larger & wider "plant-foot". Any object in motion wants to remain in that motion at that very same Vector (direction of travel). When you begin to steer and change that Vector, the Unit resists. That produces the skipping/chattering/hopping/pushing out back toward the original Vector of motion as it resists change (much like we humans ). They key is to catch that misbehaving at the initial point where the steering input begins to alter the Vector. If can catch it there and quickly overcome that resistance, it will comply and redirect without any or with limited push. Once you have successfully redirected and established the new Vector while cornering, the same Law that caused the Push issue will then be your friend and maintain the new Vector. Then, that point being secured, the weak spot is transferred to the inside rear of the Trike. It will want to rise and rotate out/roll up to straight line as Centripetal/Centrifugal force is created due to the apex/front single point becoming stable. The only way to counter that would be a taller & wider outside Tire that would resist that Roll. Of course suspension changes would counter and help as well but for the same reasons, we can't really do either on our Trikes. That would solve cornering but be an absolute nightmare during all other riding conditions. Also as mentioned above, changing the COG of the Trike would counter that as well but we lack the Mass and ability to position that Mass properly so the point is moot.

So, either slow down reducing velocity which proportionately decreases the push, OR a Bigger/Wider "plant-foot". Softer/Slower steering input verses abrupt, sudden, and radical steering changes counters as well but as we all know, both of those preventatives don't always work or are even possible in the real world of operation. Plus,,, that's just not fun to a lot of us. Admit it-it's just not sometimes

In the end,,, Bigger/Wider Plant-Foot OR Deal with it as is.

 

[SEABILL]

Wheels; What I got out of it was that not only do we need a bigger Foot-plant, but it is also where and how we place it.

:Shrug:

- - - Updated - - -

Wheels; What I got out of it was that not only do we need a bigger Foot-plant, but it is also where and how we place it.

:Shrug:

I got that wrong. It's "plant-foot".

BTY it was a good write-up.

 

[Veritas44]

I'll be more than happy to 'Splain it to you Lucy ThumbUp Someday over a rather large and tasty Éclair
If I have to "Suess it up" too much,,, make it a Bacon-Cheese Burger as well

If that don't work for ya, you can always turn to "The Experts".... :laugh:

 

[07BlueCSC]

<div class="bbcode_container"><br />
<div class="bbcode_quote"><br />
<div class="quote_container"><br />
<div class="bbcode_quote_container"></div><br />
<br />
<div class="bbcode_postedby"><br />
<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>halftrack65</strong><br />
<a href="showthread.php?p=208709#post208709" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a><br />
</div><br />
<div class="message">Default Trike front end slides on turns<br /><br />
<br /><br />
Can anyone give me a reason that the trike fells like it is pushing in the turns. Just had my 1800 gold wing trike d at the factory champion down in Garden grove. Calif. Have not road it much but the little that I have it seems to file like it is pushing. Is there a fix for this with out spending a lot of money. thanks Halftrack65http://www.triketalk.com/forum/images/smilies/smileygarden_de_banana7.gif</div><br />
<br />
</div><br />
</div><br />
</div>You are not riding a motorcycle any more, you are riding a TRIKE.<img src="images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" /><br /><br />
<br /><br />
After you turn the handlebars to change direction, you do not counter-steer.<br /><br />
<br /><br />
You continue to move the handlebars in the direction you want to go.<br /><br />
<br /><br />
You have two very wide tires in the rear that want to continue going straight ahead.<br /><br />
<br /><br />
The front tire is very small in relation to the rear tires.<br /><br />
<br /><br />
The front tire will slide when you are changing direction.<br /><br />
<br /><br />
There is nothing to fix.<br /><br />
<br /><br />
Just ride the TRIKE and get used to the new sensation.<br /><br />
<br /><br />
If you have a Radial tire on the front, expect about 6 to 7 thousand miles and it will be worn out.<img src="images/smilies/thumbup.gif" border="0" alt="" title="<img src="images/smilies/thumbup.gif" border="0" alt="" title="ThumbUp" class="inlineimg" />" class="inlineimg" />

 

[msocko3]

I'm thinking he may have made a few stops down the Bourbon Trail.

 

[Old Fard]

This topic has been beat to death, the physics are simple. Just a couple of thoughts; first the front wheel deflection on a two wheel is less due to the lean in the turn. Secondly the front wheel has a lot of mass (weight/density). When the front wheel is rotating it acts like a gyro and the speed increases so does the effort to move it out of position. The tighter and faster the turn the more difficult it is to turn the wheel. I have a GL1800 Champion trike with a six degree rake (easy steer) and live in the mountains, so lots of curves to deal with. My trike seems to "stick" well but some turns take a lot of force if I'm pushing it. I lean inside so "I can straight arm" the outside arm that I'm pushing with to turn. This way I'm using body weight instead of arm muscle to apply pressure. CG is not really affected.<br />
<br />
Slowing some and then accelerating out of the turn reduces the load on the front tire.

With a little practice it seems to come natural. The club (mostly 2 wheelers) that I ride with sometimes runs fast depending on the leader and that can make a little more work for me in the turns, especially "round-abouts", two wheelers can breeze through them. Choice of tire can help, I like the Michelin Battle Ax with 41 psi. If you mean resistance to turn the front wheel is the pushing that you feel, we all have that to varying degrees. If the front tire is skidding in the turns, that is a different issue having to do with weight distribution, tire size, hardness and sometimes tire pressure. During my racing days the tire manufacturers stated that the mounting direction had to do with how the tire applies load to the bias bond joint. Your call on that, I don't reverse the tire to place it on the front, I prefer the way the tire deals with rain dispersal in the normal position. <br /><br />
My $0.02 worth.

 

[SEABILL]

Choice of tire can help, I like the Michelin Battle Ax with 41 psi.

Is this a test to see if we are paying attention?

 

[oldbear]

Nature of the beast. Try pushing down with the "outboard" foot on it's peg, helps the feel a little. This whole "cornering" thing is one reason why, in theory at least, a Spyder from Can Am "should" outcorner our trikes, everything else being equal. (TWO large tires changing direction vs one small one)

 

[Ozarkryder]

Originally Posted by Old Fard
Choice of tire can help, I like the Michelin Battle Ax with 41 psi.

Reply by SEABILL:
Is this a test to see if we are paying attention?

Maybe, although I have heard the Bridgstone Pilot Activ also comes recommended.

 

[Veritas44]

Maybe, although I have heard the Bridgstone Pilot Activ also comes recommended.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Don't forget the Dunlop ME880 or the Metzler Commander II

 

[Razor]

<div class="bbcode_container">
<div class="bbcode_quote">
<div class="quote_container">
<div class="bbcode_quote_container"></div>

<div class="bbcode_postedby">
<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Veritas44</strong>
<a href="showthread.php?p=210689#post210689" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
</div>
<div class="message"><img src="images/smilies/laugh.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="images/smilies/laugh.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="images/smilies/laugh.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="images/smilies/laugh.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" /><br />
<br />
Don't forget the Dunlop ME880 or the Metzler Commander II <img src="images/smilies/grin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="big grin" class="inlineimg" /></div>

</div>
</div>
</div>I had a 2012 Spyder RT SEM5.

Try driving a Spyder down out of the mountains with 450 lb. of rider/passenger/gear on board. Once you get through kissing the ground and changing your shorts you will head to the nearest Honda dealer. After 5000 miles and five weeks in the shop I could not take the Spyder any more. I had the Motor Trike Razor kit installed on my 2012 1800 with a 4.5 degree rake. Even with the stock front tire it handles like a sports car and it feels much safer and comfortable than the Spyder. It also gets better gas mileage. What seems good in theory does not always transfer to practical applications. I just finished watching "Long way Down" and Long way Around on Netflicks. Is this winter ever going to end?

 

[Snake]

Sounds like I better leave mine in the garage when the roads are snow packed.:Trike1:

 

[John Luciano]

SNAKE. Just 2 words. PARKING LOT TRAINING. OK maybe that's 3 words.<br />
Doing Figure 8s. Try it with just the right hand on the grip. Put the left in your pocket.

 

[pcombe]

Have YOU checked tire pressures?? They may have too much air in front tire or too much in rear tires. Check those shock pressures as well.

I'd also take it back to see if the have some "binding issue" with the frame. Over tightened bolts, etc.

2TZ

:Agree:

 

[pcombe]

<div class="bbcode_container">
<div class="bbcode_quote">
<div class="quote_container">
<div class="bbcode_quote_container"></div>

<div class="bbcode_postedby">
<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>halftrack65</strong>
<a href="showthread.php?p=208709#post208709" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
</div>
<div class="message">Default Trike front end slides on turns<br />
<br />
Can anyone give me a reason that the trike fells like it is pushing in the turns. Just had my 1800 gold wing trike d at the factory champion down in Garden grove. Calif. Have not road it much but the little that I have it seems to file like it is pushing. Is there a fix for this with out spending a lot of money. thanks Halftrack65http://www.triketalk.com/forum/images/smilies/smileygarden_de_banana7.gif</div>

</div>
</div>
</div><br />
I wonder if your expressing the feeling correctly?<br />
<br />
I discovered after i built my trike that it felt un-natural in turns as if "it was sliding." or flexing?, wobbling?<br />
<br />
I put my air pressure on the front tire to it's maximum and the sensation went away.<br />
(HINT) Just having had your trike finished you may have a left over rear tire?<br />
Make sure it is exactly the same size as your front tire and put it on backward rotation when you wear out your current front tire.

 

[Calgary]

Once I got the hang of riding my trike, things started to feel pretty darn good! <br />
<br />
At 11,000 miles my OEM front tire was starting to resemble a slick, so replaced it with a BT45.<br />
<br />
Somewhat noisier but does it ever handle nicely. Running tire in normal rotation, with ceramic balancing beads and at 41 psi. Now looking forward (hopefully) to no cupping and at least double the mileage!<br />
<br />
I was out yesterday for a 300 mile ride - good roads - blue skies - balmy temperature and fine scenery. Does it get any better?<br />
<br />
<img src="images/smilies/GL1800smilie.gif" border="0" alt="" title="GL1800" class="inlineimg" /><img src="images/smilies/GL1800smilie.gif" border="0" alt="" title="GL1800" class="inlineimg" /><img src="images/smilies/GL1800smilie.gif" border="0" alt="" title="GL1800" class="inlineimg" /><img src="images/smilies/GL1800smilie.gif" border="0" alt="" title="GL1800" class="inlineimg" /><img src="images/smilies/GL1800smilie.gif" border="0" alt="" title="GL1800" class="inlineimg" /><img src="images/smilies/GL1800smilie.gif" border="0" alt="" title="GL1800" class="inlineimg" />

 

[halftrack65]

Re: Front end drift/More help on poasting

Well guy's I did not no if this went through but I think I will slow down and put up with it because I am broke now. they put a 4.5 rake in the front triple clamp. But I think it is me mostly just need to get the feel of it. Thanks to all the inputs I Appreciate all the input. one more question I have been trying to up load some pictures of my new trike. but when I try to move pictures to the up load page they just go back were I take them from whats up with that. I am running windows 8 and am not so fa miler with this op system. Help Halftrack65