Cloudy Hydraulic Clutch Fluid Explained By Dealer After Flush

[keikat2]

Cloudy Hydraulic Clutch Fluid Explained By Dealer After Flush

Went to the local Harley dealership yesterday to have my Brake/Clutch hydraulic fluid flushed. A few days before, when I scheduled the appointment, the service manager gave me an initial quote of $290.00 to flush the Brake/Clutch systems. After I checked my Trike into the dealership, about one and half hours had passed before the service manager came into the service lounge and informed me the aftermarket downpipes and trunk body were going to have to be removed to get to the clutch bleeder valve. Also, he advised me there was going to be an additional $507.00 labor charge (three and one half hours) to remove and reinstall the downpipes and trunk body making the total service cost now $797.00. After further discussion, I asked the service manager was the unexpected $507.00 labor cost negotiable and he informed me he would discuss the additional labor cost with the service technician. In turn, I told him to go ahead and perform the clutch fluid flush since I did not want to have to perform the task of removing the trunk body myself to perform the Clutch fluid flush plus I did not know where the clutch bleeder valve was located on the Trike. Another one and half hours passed and the service manager came back into the lounge and told me my Trike was ready. Additionally, he advised the service technician and himself had discussed the additional labor cost and both agreed to lower the labor cost to $362.50 (two and one half hours). So, the final cost to perform the Brake/Clutch fluid flush wound up being $667.50 (four and half hours labor cost plus $15.00 for the DOT 4 hydraulic fluid) plus tax. After I got back home, I found a You Tube video providing instructions on how to perform a Clutch fluid flush on a two wheel Harley and determined there was no way the Trike's trunk should have had to be removed to get to the clutch bleeder valve unless there was something different about the Tri Glide. Later, I decided to remove the clutch reservoir cover to look at the new fresh hydraulic fluid. After removing the cover, my smile quickly changed to a frown due to the new clutch hydraulic fluid looking cloudy and dark at the bottom of the reservoir. So, this morning, I returned to the Harley dealership for an explanation as to why the new clutch fluid was not clear and "clean-looking" as the new brake hydraulic fluid? The service manager told me to go into the service lounge, get a cup of coffee, and he would talk with the service technician to find out why the new clutch fluid appeared cloudy and dark. After about thirty minutes, I went back into the service area and was informed by the service manager that the Harley hydraulic clutch system, when new, contains a "graphite looking" fluid/substance and that some of this substance had "bleed-back" into the new clutch reservoir fluid. Additionally, he told me there was nothing to worry about since this "bleed-back" fluid/substance would not harm the hydraulic fluid and/or clutch system. For those of you who know more about the Tri Glide hydraulic Brake/Clutch fluid flush, does the aforementioned make sense to you? This is why I hate to take my Trike into a Harley dealership to have it worked on. Thanks, Allen S.

 

[Jack Klarich]

I call BS on this

The graphite what ever is probably assembly lube from when the trike was built

The technician was lazy or incompetent.

The master cylinder should have been cleaned out of all that crud

IMO you got ripped off, find a new honest dealer

I do not believe your trunk has to come off to bleed the system

I have a Freewheeler and have done mine twice already

 

[hardwickbv]

I'm with Jack on this one.

I took my 17 Tri Glide in to my dealer to get the front tire replaced and also had them change and flush the brakes and clutch.

I also was supposed to do the clutch recall.

they did not do the clutch then because they didn't have the recall kit.

I believe the charge for the brakes was about $85 1 hour labor plus fluid.

The clutch fluid and flush was covered under the recall when the kit came in but since it took less than an hour I can't imagine it costing much more to do it.

I definitely would find another dealer work with. I have had to do this once already and now have found a dealer that I trust for now.

By chance did they test the fluid for moisture and show you the reading. I would have made them prove the cloudiness wasn't from moisture. If they push back then you would have a good idea of what you are dealing with.

Bob

 

[Koolbreeze]

I questioned the color of my brake fluid on my 2019 trike as it was darker than I am used too. My service tech told me it was because of the assembly lube used to put together the brake system and it dissolves into the brake fluid turning it darker. Mine was still clear but a darker color. Has not affected brake or clutch performance.

 

[keikat2]

Hi Jack, Yeah, I figured I got ripped off as well. After reviewing the YOU TUBE video on changing the hydraulic clutch fluid on a two wheel bike, I now know the Trike's lower body trunk does not have to be removed to reach the clutch bleeder valve. Maybe the aftermarket downpipes do have to be loosened to remove the false clutch cover to get to the bleeder valve. I cannot tell until I attempt to remove the false cover myself. Anyway, as mentioned, I hate taking my Trike into a Harley dealership for three reasons. Most service managers are untrained and do not know "what the hell" they are talking about. If you keep asking them related questions, you will most often catch them in a lie from being unlearned. Second, they have already thought about and know all the possible reasons/explanations why the intended service cannot be performed as expected usually resulting in added cost. Lastly and probably the most important thing is, "I simply do not trust most Harley dealerships". I believe most Harley dealerships are out to make the most money they can; "Any-way" and "Any-how"!! Basically, Harley loyalty only comes from Harley owners/riders and is freely given to the Harley dealerships resulting in "high dollar" costs. To me the most "customer-oriented" area of a dealership should be the service department. Whether its a Harley motorcycle or automotive dealership, the service area is the backbone of the dealership. If the clients feel the service area has treated them with respect, honesty, and they have paid a fair repair/service charge, they will be back to buy the dealerships new products. From talking, I think most Harley owners are aware that dealerships' service labor costs are going to be high in order to keep and maintain their most knowledgeable and experienced mechanics. Plus there are times when something unforeseen does occur resulting an unexpected higher service cost. To me, "HONESTY" and "TRUST" are the two most important relationships. between a Harley dealership and its clients. However, as read on this and other similar forums, I believe most Harley owners/riders have come to expect to be "screwed-over" by their Harley dealership. From reading all the forum jokes and client/dealership experiences, it's just the "nature of the beast" of owning a Harley motorcycle. In turn, this is why I attempt to perform all added modification installations and service maintenance on my Trike. Looking forward to your response. Allen S.

 

[Jack Klarich]

After re reading this, what he told you about bleed back is non sense

If the job was done correctly the tech would have sucked the old fluid out of the master cylinder and wiped the inside out with a lint free cloth

After a complete bleeding your fluid should have been clear to a light yellow

Demand your money back IMO

If you have stock exhaust the front pipes do not have to be removed, just loosened

The clutch bleed job should not take more than 1 hour book time

 

[Gold Nugget]

I would go to there web-site, and do the review.

Like was already said the fluid should of looked clear with no residue.



I've been treated very good at SURDYKE HD, They have always gone the extra mile. Had A new rear tire installed on my 09, when they had it apart they found the Axle bearings was getting bad. They came and got me to show it., I was $25.00 short on cash for the part with labor to fix-it "after paying for the tire and tube". Anyway they discounted the bearings and charged NO labor for the fix. When I left I still had BEER money!

 

[Jack Klarich]

Allen, HD techs work on flat rate book time

That said they cannot justify IMO the high cost of the service they performed

This is a big reason most of us do NOT trust the service department.

A factory service manual is your best friend. Get one and read it, ask questions here and do not be afraid of your bike

The only time any of my bikes are @ the dealer is for warranty work

 

[MDO]

I call BS on this

The graphite what ever is probably assembly lube from when the trike was built

The technician was lazy or incompetent.

The master cylinder should have been cleaned out of all that crud

IMO you got ripped off, find a new honest dealer

I do not believe your trunk has to come off to bleed the system

I have a Freewheeler and have done mine twice already

Hey Jack, he has listed he has a 2014 TriGlide. Didn't they have a recall on the hydraulic clutches for that year. When they were doing the clutch recall for 2018, removing the actuator, changing seals & flushing & testing they only charged an hour labor & that included 1-12oz bottle of DOT 4 for $7

OP, you need to find an honest dealer.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Hey Jack, he has listed he has a 2014 TriGlide. Didn't they have a recall on the hydraulic clutches for that year. When they were doing the clutch recall for 2018, removing the actuator, changing seals & flushing & testing they only charged an hour labor & that included 1-12oz bottle of DOT 4 for $7

OP, you need to find an honest dealer.

2014 models had a recall on the master cylinder

IMO the actuator problem should go back this far also

No doubt this dealer ripped him off and should be held accountable, at least the service manager should show him book time on the job he had done

I bet it does not jive with his bill

 

[MDO]

OP, make sure all recalls have been performed on your Tri.

 

[keikat2]

To All The Responders,

Yes, I know now I was ripped off. It will be my last time to take my Trike to this Harley dealership. However, all of my current frustration with this Harley dealership is not totally their fault. I was informed of the added labor cost by the service manager which did sound unreasonable at the time; however, I did not want to attempt to remove the Trike's trunk myself and was not aware where the clutch bleeder valve was located on the Trike. Now I know I was lied to. One of the most costly things in life is "learned experiences". A great deal of the blame should be placed on myself for not knowing how the clutch fluid flush service is performed. Using the Internet as a source, I am usually a little better prepared when dealing with something I am not familiar with; however, this is one of those times I was not. I guess I am most frustrated with myself for not being better prepared at the time. If I had been, I would have been better prepared to "counter-discuss" all the crazy service requirements and costs I was given by the service manager. Once again, thank you for all your responses. Allen S.

 

[keikat2]

To All Previous Responders,

After my attempt to remove the Transmission Outside Cover, the downpipe(s) do indeed have to be moved outward approximately 2 inches away from the body frame to remove the Transmission cover where the clutch bleeder valve is located underneath. I have aftermarket S&S Power-Tune header pipes on my Trike which apparently is installed "closer-in" to the Trike's frame. However, I guarantee the Trike's trunk does not have to be removed as stated by the service manager. Now, in order to perform the next clutch fluid flush myself, I will be looking and testing the best way to loosen/adjust the top header downpipe outwards to gain the 2 inch access. Once again, thank you for all your comments and responses. Allen S.

 

[MDO]

My 2017 Freewheeler/ TriGlide service manual says you have to loosen the pipes to get the cover off. but on a stock engine you can get it off by just loosening the heat shield.

This happens a lot with the service manual & you learn through experience that sometimes there is an simpler way.

Not all dealers are like that by the way. If you have the luxury of having more that 1 local, check the rest of them out.

 

[Jack Klarich]

To All Previous Responders,

After my attempt to remove the Transmission Outside Cover, the downpipe(s) do indeed have to be moved outward approximately 2 inches away from the body frame to remove the Transmission cover where the clutch bleeder valve is located underneath. I have aftermarket S&S Power-Tune header pipes on my Trike which apparently is installed "closer-in" to the Trike's frame. However, I guarantee the Trike's trunk does not have to be removed as stated by the service manager. Now, in order to perform the next clutch fluid flush myself, I will be looking and testing the best way to loosen/adjust the top header downpipe outwards to gain the 2 inch access. Once again, thank you for all your comments and responses. Allen S.

Good deal, the manual calls for bleeding every 2 years

How close does your exhaust run to the faux cover? This can be important as it can cause the brake fluid to super heat causing clutch problems

 

[keikat2]

Hi Jack, The faux Transmission Side Cover is a chrome piece, I believe, that came standard on the 2014 Tri Glide. I have looked at different photos and every picture I can find of this year model seems to have the chrome side cover. On the side of the faux transmission cover, there is a recessed oval area where I have added the Harley "Live to Ride, Ride to Live" Eagle w/banner chrome piece. As a result, the closest distance the down pipes come to the faux transmission cover is 1/2 inch along the full length of the bottom edge of the added "Live to Ride, Ride to Live" oval chrome piece.

Also, I was told by the Harley dealership service manager, the hydraulic clutch fluid in the clutch reservoir was not static and continually moves through the clutch lines every time the clutch lever is pulled in and let go. In turn, if a person wanted to periodically update new clutch fluid into the clutch system, wouldn't it be possible to remove the clutch reservoir cover, remove all the reservoir clutch fluid and any debris from the reservoir bottom, add new fluid to the indicated "fill" line, place the reservoir cover back on and reinstall the cover screws. As long as the clutch lever is not pulled-in during this process, no air should enter the clutch lines. Finally, to complete this process "pull-in" and let go the clutch lever about 20 to 25 times to begin cycling the new fluid into the clutch lines which should, also, I believe bring the old fluid back into the clutch reservoir. After repeating this process about four or five times, I would think most of the fluid in the clutch system would be new fluid which you could view the fluid's clarity and test with a moisture meter. If this process would work, it would certainly save the hassle and time of having to remove or loosen the downpipes to remove the Transmission side cover to gain access to the clutch bleeder valve. What do you think? Looking forward to your response. Allen S.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Allen, that would be a good staring point

If you used a syringe to remove most of the fluid in the master cylinder you could use q tips to clean out the sludge also

This would be a BIG plus for you, your fluid would no longer be cloudy

You can do the same for both brake systems as well

1 of these is a plus and cheap I have a very high end tester I bought years ago before these pocket tolls came out

Brake fluid tester

 

[rhino 2]

Allen, that would be a good staring point

If you used a syringe to remove most of the fluid in the master cylinder you could use q tips to clean out the sludge also

your fluid would no longer be cloudy



You can do the same for both brake systems as well

Q-Tips is what i used......Before i added clean fluid. Then i bled them....ThumbUp

 

[keikat2]

Jack, thank you for your response. I have on order a 100mm brake fluid syringe with about 40 inches of clear bleeder hose and a moisture meter exactly like the one you have pictured. As soon as I receive these items plus purchase a large bottle with a cap and some DOT 4 hydraulic fluid, I am going to give the previously described process a shot. The key is not to touch the clutch lever at any time during the reservoir fluid removal, debris cleaning, and fluid re-filling steps. Hopefully, this should prevent any air from entering the clutch lines. I will keep you posted on how the aforementioned process turns out. I guess a successful outcome after performing the aforementioned process about 4 times should be clear/clean hydraulic fluid in the reservoir with the hydraulic fluid having a 0% moisture level. Correct? Once again, thanks for all your help. Allen S.

 

[Jack Klarich]

That should work good

Best of luck:clapping:

 

[Jack Klarich]

Keep in mind with brake fluid once the container is opened the clock is ticking

Meaning the fluid will start absorbing moisture

When I taught brake class it never failed , I would see 5 gallon cans of brake fluid in the shops with NO tops on

I always had my meter with me so I would check the fluid. 9 out of 10 times the fluid was contaminated. Glad I was not responsible for paying for the fluid

 

[keikat2]

Hi Rhino 2, What I am trying to do is periodically replace the majority of hydraulic clutch fluid without having to remove the transmission outside cover to bleed the clutch line. Today, I attempted to remove the transmission outside cover and there is simply not enough room between the downpipes and Trike frame to remove the bottom portion of the transmission cover. In turn, to have enough room, I would have to loosen/remove the Trike's aftermarket downpipes. Thanks for your response. Allen S.

 

[keikat2]

Thanks Jack, When I purchase the new DOT 4 hydraulic fluid, I will use what I need and the remaining will be disposed. In turn, if this process works, my plans are to make it a yearly one using newly purchased hydraulic fluid at that time. Once again, thanks for all the help. I will eventually get there. Allen S.

 

[radismukes]

Allen

Texas have consumer protection laws for repair work. Check out this link.

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/consumer-protection/automotive-scams/car-repair-tips

Good Luck!

 

[Sunman]

.....In turn, if a person wanted to periodically update new clutch fluid into the clutch system, wouldn't it be possible to remove the clutch reservoir cover, remove all the reservoir clutch fluid and any debris from the reservoir bottom, add new fluid to the indicated "fill" line, place the reservoir cover back on and reinstall the cover screws. As long as the clutch lever is not pulled-in during this process, no air should enter the clutch lines.

This is exactly what I have done on my bikes for several years. At least twice a year I use a syringe and suck all of the fluid out of my clutch and brake reservoirs, wipe out the reservoirs and add new fluid. So far I have never had any problems with my clutch or brakes. Not recommending this just saying that it works for me.

Sunman