Wings clipped.Trans dead.

[Marc H]

I think the trans has died on my trike.Started making a noise on decel about a block from work Monday morning and by the time I rode the 15 miles home the only time it wasn't doing it was sitting still in gear and 4th gear was pretty much useless. I took a short recording sitting in neutral.[video]http://vid989.photobucket.com/albums/af15/LuvMyStar/20170228_174010_zpsx9bakipe.mp4[/video]

 

[rhino 2]

I think the trans has died on my trike.Started making a noise on decel about a block from work Monday morning and by the time I rode the 15 miles home the only time it wasn't doing it was sitting still in gear and 4th gear was pretty much useless.I took a short recording sitting in neutral.[video]http://vid989.photobucket.com/albums/af15/LuvMyStar/20170228_174010_zpsx9bakipe.mp4[/video]

Probably not the same, Once with my Spyder the front sprocket chewed up the main shaft, And then the sprocket would just spin free on the shaft...:Shrug:...

 

[trike lady]

What does the clutch lever feel like, firm or soft?
When was the last system flush?

 

[Marc H]

clutch feels normal. Its overdue a flush. I've owed it 3yrs.

 

[trike lady]

There's a good chance the return orifice in the reservoir is clogged.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

I think the trans has died on my trike.Started making a noise on decel about a block from work Monday morning and by the time I rode the 15 miles home the only time it wasn't doing it was sitting still in gear and 4th gear was pretty much useless.I took a short recording sitting in neutral.[video]http://vid989.photobucket.com/albums/af15/LuvMyStar/20170228_174010_zpsx9bakipe.mp4[/video]

Sorry, my shop only works on GL1800, and since this is a GL1500, I could be totally wrong. But that noise sounds way to light, or high-pitched for a transmission noise that is constantly being lubricated with engine oil. Before jumping to a transmission problem, I'd see what the drive shaft is doing when someone is duplicating the symptom. My guess would be that you will see the output shaft of the engine spinning, but not the back part of the driveshaft. Somewhere on your shaft are probably splines, and most likely your problems is from worn splines.

FYI ... as on-going maintenance, most trike manufactures require their drive shaft be pulled, inspected, and lubed every 5,000-24,000 miles. On GL1800s, unless one is on a long trip, it's been my experience that is a service that should never be skipped.

 

[Marc H]

Thanks for the suggestions folks.Tomorrow is my day off so hopefully I can get stuff done and start checking a few things.

 

[Marc H]

Splines are fine.I guess its a bad sign if you can spin the output shaft while the trans is in 4th or 5th right.Especially since they use the same shift collar.[FONT=&quot]I know the Valk engine is a no go because of loosing reverse and this is a trike.Can I use the shafts and gears from a Valk in mine or use the reverse goodies as well as intake from mine on a Valk engine.I'm not afraid of the work as long I know it can be done and i'll have everything I need between the 2.[/FONT]

 

[Marc H]

Splines are fine.I guess its a bad sign if you can spin the output shaft while the trans is in 4th or 5th right.Especially since they use the same shift collar.I know the Valk engine is a no go because of loosing reverse and this is a trike.Can I use the shafts and gears from a Valk in mine or use the reverse goodies as well as intake from mine on a Valk engine.I'm not afraid of the work as long I know it can be done and i'll have everything I need between the 2.

Disregard the spinning shaft part of this I confused myself.Will inspect further when time allows.

 

[Marc H]

There's a good chance the return orifice in the reservoir is clogged.

I'm curious and like a sponge I absorb this type of info.Are saying that its some sort of chatter caused by partial clutch engagement?I would have thought it would act like a brake master and basically eventually keep the clutch disengaged completely.Please educate me.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Please educate me.

I think she's trying to tell a "muffler bearing" joke:busted:

 

[trike lady]

I'm curious and like a sponge I absorb this type of info.Are saying that its some sort of chatter caused by partial clutch engagement?I would have thought it would act like a brake master and basically eventually keep the clutch disengaged completely.Please educate me.

If the return orifice is clogged it will make the clutch slip, as it did on a gentleman's GL1200 when he stated that the bike was having clutch issues and the condition of the fluid was like coffee. A flush of the system and the problem went away. Water in the lowest point in the system will heat and expand and put pressure in the system and separate the plates. When the water in the system is cold the system will work, as it heats it will start to cause the plates to separate and disengage.

I think she's trying to tell a "muffler bearing" joke

:busted:

No I'm not.
From an automotive site on hydraulic clutches.

[h=3]2. Hard to shift[/h]Another symptom commonly associated with a bad or failing clutch master cylinder is difficulty shifting. The clutch master cylinder is hydraulic in nature and is therefore prone to internal leaks that can interfere with it’s ability to properly displaced fluid. If the master cylinder is not able to properly create pressure, it will not be able to disengage the clutch properly when the pedal is pressed. This may lead to grinding the gears when shifting, and possibly even a transmission that pops out of gear.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

If the return orifice is clogged it will make the clutch slip, as it did on a gentleman's GL1200 when he stated that the bike was having clutch issues and the condition of the fluid was like coffee. A flush of the system and the problem went away. Water in the lowest point in the system will heat and expand and put pressure in the system and separate the plates. When the water in the system is cold the system will work, as it heats it will start to cause the plates to separate and disengage.


No I'm not.

Sorry ... yes, they can do that. When I read you post, for some reason I was thinking you were talking about the oil assisted clutch side of things.

 

[Marc H]

If the return orifice is clogged it will make the clutch slip, as it did on a gentleman's GL1200 when he stated that the bike was having clutch issues and the condition of the fluid was like coffee. A flush of the system and the problem went away. Water in the lowest point in the system will heat and expand and put pressure in the system and separate the plates. When the water in the system is cold the system will work, as it heats it will start to cause the plates to separate and disengage.


No I'm not.
From an automotive site on hydraulic clutches.

Thanks.That clears that up for me.

 

[trike lady]

You're welcome.

 

[Marc H]

Heres where i'm at with this.Stethoscope shows loudest in in lower area more towards the front.Gonna try to borrow a scope from one of the mechanics at work.Almost forgot he had it.But here is a better video.I have the the lifter plate out of it and obviously the slave cyl.to eliminate those. http://vid989.photobucket.com/albums/af15/LuvMyStar/20170308_1349341_zpsj1qvtn0z.mp4 Also does anybody know how Valkyrie engines do in trikes.With wrist control are they comparable in fuel mileage?I have the reverse part figured out so that not much of a concern.

 

[Sidecarbill]

I got a weedwacker sounds just like that! Sorry. Anyway i don't know how long you've owned that bkie but rtv like sealer always says bad things to me. If you hold a finger against that rear cover can you feel the noise? It sounds like a nut or snap ring let go. Probably allowing gears or clutch drum to rub on something it shouldn't.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Heres where i'm at with this.Stethoscope shows loudest in in lower area more towards the front.Gonna try to borrow a scope from one of the mechanics at work.Almost forgot he had it.But here is a better video.I have the the lifter plate out of it and obviously the slave cyl.to eliminate those. http://vid989.photobucket.com/albums/af15/LuvMyStar/20170308_1349341_zpsj1qvtn0z.mp4 Also does anybody know how Valkyrie engines do in trikes.With wrist control are they comparable in fuel mileage?I have the reverse part figured out so that not much of a concern.

There is a lot of missing information ... it would help if you told us what you are doing. Are you shifting from N into 1st, then back into N, then 2nd, 3rd, and 4th ??? What are you doing with your clutch ??? Is it in the whole time, or are you pulling it in and letting it out as you complete each shift ??? Are the rear wheels off the ground ??? What does it do in 5th ???

 

[Marc H]

Sorry.Slave is off.I'm sorry the name escapes me but the entire piece with the bearing that mounts on the clutch to release it is off.Just the clutch itself is there.Driveshaft is out.I wasn't clutching just changing.I started in N then 1,N,2,3,4.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Sorry.Slave is off.I'm sorry the name escapes me but the entire piece with the bearing that mounts on the clutch to release it is off.Just the clutch itself is there.Driveshaft is out.I wasn't clutching just changing.I started in N then 1,N,2,3,4.

Thanks ... I'm sure that will help. Unfortunately, I live in the world of GL1800, and know very little about 1500s, and since my prior guess was wrong, we'll have to wait for someone more knowledgeable to assist with your issue.

 

[Marc H]

Its alright Greg I really appreciate you and everyone who have tried to help.What I really think is going on is the 4-5 shift fork is worn allowing the shift collar to basically hunt back and forth between the gears and the is the teeth on the collar lightly rubbing the teeth on the gear thats why its quiet in 4th & 5th.The collar is actually engaged.I also think at this point I need to stop messing with it and accept reality that to find the issue I will be tearing the engine down.

The thing I didn't tell was I removed the clutch itself and started the bike and the noise wasn't there so that tells me it has to be in the transmission.I guess I was hoping for confirmation since you never know when someone will say I heard that before and it was this.It will be a few weeks before I get a chance to get deeper into this.I'll report what I find when find it for future info for others.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Its alright Greg I really appreciate you and everyone who have tried to help.What I really think is going on is the 4-5 shift fork is worn allowing the shift collar to basically hunt back and forth between the gears and the is the teeth on the collar lightly rubbing the teeth on the gear thats why its quiet in 4th & 5th.The collar is actually engaged.I also think at this point I need to stop messing with it and accept reality that to find the issue I will be tearing the engine down.

The thing I didn't tell was I removed the clutch itself and started the bike and the noise wasn't there so that tells me it has to be in the transmission.I guess I was hoping for confirmation since you never know when someone will say I heard that before and it was this.It will be a few weeks before I get a chance to get deeper into this.I'll report what I find when find it for future info for others.

With your prior info, I was left knowing that it was either a clutch or tranny problem. However, now that you are providing more information (clutch removed), I agree with your transmission diagnosis, and that a fork has been damaged. Your noise is caused from dogs on a slider gear not fully disengaging with the dogs on another gear.

Here is what it sounds like on a GL1800

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcsvcWcF3hk

Here are couple of things to remember when doing transmission repair. 1) Fork damage is always the result of another problem. Never, ever assume that a fork caused it. 2) Not all transmission damage is visible to the naked eye, therefore be sure to have your gears, shift forks, shift drum and drum cams, magna fluxed for hair-line cracks and cancer. 3) Have your shafts checked for excessive run-out.

Also ... got any more info that you are not sharing that might be critical to diagnosis ???

 

[trike lady]

The shift forks for the Wing and Valk are the same.

The transmission gears are a bit different in tooth count for both bikes.

If you are thinking about pulling the engine and rebuilding the trans.

 

[trike lady]

The difference between the Valk and Wing trans.

Everything is pretty much the same with the exception of main shaft fourth, counter shaft fourth, counter shaft fifth gear and main shaft fifth gear.

Here's the gear tooth count for the Valk:

Main shaft fourth: 30T

Counter shaft fourth: 30T

Main shaft fifth: 36T

Counter shaft fifth: 29T

Here's the gear tooth count for the Wing:

Main shaft fourth: 28T

Counter shaft fourth: 27T

Main shaft fifth: 29T

Counter shaft fifth: 22T

The shift drum is also different and would not work on the Wing.

 

[Marc H]

The difference between the Valk and Wing trans.

Everything is pretty much the same with the exception of main shaft fourth, counter shaft fourth, counter shaft fifth gear and main shaft fifth gear.

Here's the gear tooth count for the Valk:

Main shaft fourth: 30T

Counter shaft fourth: 30T

Main shaft fifth: 36T

Counter shaft fifth: 29T

Here's the gear tooth count for the Wing:

Main shaft fourth: 28T

Counter shaft fourth: 27T

Main shaft fifth: 29T

Counter shaft fifth: 22T

The shift drum is also different and would not work on the Wing.

Yep.The more I look into the situation here the more fixing it just isn't what I want to do right now.Just hard to give up on a good running engine.I may tear down and label everything at some point for info for others but it will be awhile before I cn really proceed with repairs.I will continue to study things but I personally feel the best options at this point are a 97-00 complete engine or short block.Not as much into the short block option due changes in the heads and cams.I don't really know exactly what they were other than bearings in rockers just that they happened.Does anybody actually know?

 

[trike lady]

If you go with a newer engine, keep your 1989 induction and carb control unit.

 

[Marc H]

I want to thank Greg and and Trike Lady and everyone else that helped out in any way.I really appreciate your help and patience pushing me through the denial stage of the situation.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

I want to thank Greg and and Trike Lady and everyone else that helped out in any way.I really appreciate your help and patience pushing me through the denial stage of the situation.

You are very welcome.

I understand your "denial," and that's an excellent way of describing it. If you had a GL1800, and read about ghost shifting symptoms on my web page, I address "denial" and include it as a symptom of ghost shifting. "The rider often blames it on a "miss shift," not wanting to believe what he just felt was a ghost shift."

Keep up posted on what you do.

 

[trike lady]

You're welcome.

 

[Marc H]

Well i'm done for the foreseeable future.I've lost 1/4 of my income so this will probably sit in the corner for awhile.I have the engine out of it and I will tear in when I feel inspired.