Stage 1 for newbies

[TGCarol]

OK....I know what you're thinking. "Oh no! Not another Stage 1 thread!" I hope that this one will be a little different than previous ones. I would like to thank in advance any of you knowledgable trikers out there for your valuable advice. I truly appreciate it.

I plan to upgrade my 2016 Triglide to Stage 1. I love my husband and do not want to give him a sticker shock heart attack, so I am going to do this in stages. My plan for this thread is an ongoing conversation (with pics) about a newbie like myself asking questions and posting about each stage as it is completed. My father always told me "There are no stupid questions" but I am sure that some of the questions I have will have very obvious answers to all of you seasoned bikers and trikers out there. Please be gentle :xzqxz:. I hope that other complete newbies who have the same questions will get some value out of this thread, not just myself.

My reasons for doing this upgrade are to increase the longevity of my engine. We all know Triglides are expensive and I need this one to last as long as possible with less heat damage. Performance is icing on the cake for me. Maybe one day I will be looking into getting a Dyno tune, oil coolers and cat removal done but for now, my choices will be basic.

Obviously the end goal is a Stage 1 Triglide. I am going to be relying on my local dealer to perform the installations since I have extremely limited knowledge, no wrenching skill and limited tools. My questions will mostly be about the specific parts that I choose, their pros and cons, and the differences between them both in quality and performance.

So......here goes....

Most of the searches I have done define a Stage 1 upgrade as a free flowing air cleaner, less restrictive exhaust and some sort of fuel management device.
I guess my first question would be where do I start? Is it better to begin with the air cleaner or the slip ons? At what point does the fuel management device come into play, with the air cleaner or the slip ons? Will the Harley "remapping" do for a short time?

Thank you again and I apologize for the long post.

 

[trikermutha]

1:start with air cleaner and mufflers. Cheap start...

2:Then go with decat pipe and tuner. (TTS)

3:Then later cam etc..

Of coarse this will cost some money nothing is cheap anymore unless you get a deal on mufflers,air cleaner etc..

 

[rhino 2]

OK....I know what you're thinking. "Oh no! Not another Stage 1 thread!" I hope that this one will be a little different than previous ones. I would like to thank in advance any of you knowledgable trikers out there for your valuable advice. I truly appreciate it.

I plan to upgrade my 2016 Triglide to Stage 1. I love my husband and do not want to give him a sticker shock heart attack, so I am going to do this in stages. My plan for this thread is an ongoing conversation (with pics) about a newbie like myself asking questions and posting about each stage as it is completed. My father always told me "There are no stupid questions" but I am sure that some of the questions I have will have very obvious answers to all of you seasoned bikers and trikers out there. Please be gentle :xzqxz:. I hope that other complete newbies who have the same questions will get some value out of this thread, not just myself.

My reasons for doing this upgrade are to increase the longevity of my engine. We all know Triglides are expensive and I need this one to last as long as possible with less heat damage. Performance is icing on the cake for me. Maybe one day I will be looking into getting a Dyno tune, oil coolers and cat removal done but for now, my choices will be basic.

Obviously the end goal is a Stage 1 Triglide. I am going to be relying on my local dealer to perform the installations since I have extremely limited knowledge, no wrenching skill and limited tools. My questions will mostly be about the specific parts that I choose, their pros and cons, and the differences between them both in quality and performance.

So......here goes....

Most of the searches I have done define a Stage 1 upgrade as a free flowing air cleaner, less restrictive exhaust and some sort of fuel management device.
I guess my first question would be where do I start? Is it better to begin with the air cleaner or the slip ons? At what point does the fuel management device come into play, with the air cleaner or the slip ons? Will the Harley "remapping" do for a short time?

Thank you again and I apologize for the long post.

The stage 1 is a dealer instal, And it will keep your warranty intact..
I have it on my 11 Tri, Since 11.. It includes the air cleaner kit, And the recalibration of the EMC Which will move the rev-limit to 6200 rpm's.. Worth every penny 'For me anyway.. ..
Thats where i would start and did...If you do too much at once, and something isn't working right ' You''ll go nuts trying to find what is wrong... Next i went to true duels cat-less... Then to slip-ons..
And when i put the slip-ons on [Rush 175's] i lost bottom end power big time but gained noise bigger time.. I was about to 86 the rush's' intill i tried a set of DK'S Thunder Torques.. They solved the problem and i got back the bottom power without the noise.. Had i done everything at once it would have taken me $$months$$$ to find out what didn't go with all the upgrades...

 

[NHBAGGER]

You could save a little money but leaving the stock air cleaner on. I do not think you will gain anything by replacing it except cosmetics. Look around for a set of used mufflers with Fullsac baffles..(maybe 1-7/8 or 2" baffles). May not even need a tuner that way?

 

[TGCarol]

1:start with air cleaner and mufflers. Cheap start...

2:Then go with decat pipe and tuner. (TTS)

3:Then later cam etc..

Of coarse this will cost some money nothing is cheap anymore unless you get a deal on mufflers,air cleaner etc..

Thanks. I was thinking the air cleaner might be the first thing.

- - - Updated - - -

The stage 1 is a dealer instal, And it will keep your warranty intact..
I have it on my 11 Tri, Since 11.. It includes the air cleaner kit, And the recalibration of the EMC Which will move the rev-limit to 6200 rpm's.. Worth every penny 'For me anyway.. ..
Thats where i would start and did...If you do too much at once, and something isn't working right ' You''ll go nuts trying to find what is wrong... Next i went to true duels cat-less... Then to slip-ons..
And when i put the slip-ons on [Rush 175's] i lost bottom end power big time but gained noise bigger time.. I was about to 86 the rush's' intill i tried a set of DK'S Thunder Torques.. They solved the problem and i got back the bottom power without the noise.. Had i done everything at once it would have taken me $$months$$$ to find out what didn't go with all the upgrades...

Something I will keep in mind during this upgrade. Thanks. I would probably have a really hard time finding the problem.

It's important for me to keep my warrantee intact. Do I only get to choose from the air cleaners that my dealer has?

- - - Updated - - -

You could save a little money but leaving the stock air cleaner on. I do not think you will gain anything by replacing it except cosmetics. Look around for a set of used mufflers with Fullsac baffles..(maybe 1-7/8 or 2" baffles). May not even need a tuner that way?

Thanks. I think I would like a higher flow air cleaner. I plan on keeping my stock cover though.

 

[BOXX3R]

Thanks. I was thinking the air cleaner might be the first thing.

Thanks. I think I would like a higher flow air cleaner. I plan on keeping my stock cover though.

Carol. you are on the same path as I am. I chose a DK 606 Hi Flow air cleaner kit to start off with which allowed me to use my almost stock air cover. Next will be a pair of slip-ons, then headers and a tuner.

http://www.triketalk.com/forum/threads/33604-New-Air-Filter

 

[NHBAGGER]

I believe that it's been determined that for a stock motor (no cams) the stock air filter will flow all you need, but I guess a new element doesn't cost all that much.
I tend to change mine to add a little style bling.

 

[TGCarol]

Carol. you are on the same path as I am. I chose a DK 606 Hi Flow air cleaner kit to start off with which allowed me to use my almost stock air cover. Next will be a pair of slip-ons, then headers and a tuner.

http://www.triketalk.com/forum/threads/33604-New-Air-Filter

Hey. Thanks for he link. It's so smart how you figured out how to install the cover so it fit as you like it ThumbUp

I'm not sure if Harley Dealers will install after market parts besides what they sell. I'm looking at the Screaming Eagle High Flow Air Cleaner kit part 29400234.

I like DK products. Also thinking about a lift kit. I rode over a dip in the road yesterday and scraped my pipes for the first time :gah:. I hope the dealer will install it for me. Can anyone tell me if dealers will install after market parts or are they all different?

 

[Zammy]

I think every dealer is different Carol, mine installed the comfort lift kit from DK with no reservations. The lifts have nothing to do with stage 1 but they were one of the best mods I've had done, the steering and ride are much improved.

 

[TGCarol]

I think every dealer is different Carol, mine installed the comfort lift kit from DK with no reservations. The lifts have nothing to do with stage 1 but they were one of the best mods I've had done, the steering and ride are much improved.

Yes. I went off topic a little :AGGHH: . Glad you like yours ThumbUp. If I do go with the Comfort Lift I'll do it the same time as my mufflers.

 

[cdculbertson]

I think every dealer is different Carol, mine installed the comfort lift kit from DK with no reservations. The lifts have nothing to do with stage 1 but they were one of the best mods I've had done, the steering and ride are much improved.

My dealer installed the DK Comfort Lift kit when they did my Stage 1 (Screamin' Eagle high flow air filter/OEM cover and Rinehart True Dual Xtremes), and charged me an extra 1.5 hours labor for it. Probably too much labor, but I wasn't able to install it myself.

 

[TGCarol]

My dealer installed the DK Comfort Lift kit when they did my Stage 1 (Screamin' Eagle high flow air filter/OEM cover and Rinehart True Dual Xtremes), and charged me an extra 1.5 hours labor for it. Probably too much labor, but I wasn't able to install it myself.

Thanks Doug. I'll talk to my dealer. I think they would do it. You're right though. Labor cost hurts :AGGHH:

 

[HDB0B]

2014 - We rode for over 1 year and 10K+ miles on a stock system. We got used to the heat.

Finally I de-catted the stock head pipes (you can purchase from www.wildpigpipes.com for a very reasonable cost.).
I use Nightrider FL-Vied-10 fuel enrichers on my oxygen sensor lines. (set at 62.5%)
I still have the stock mufflers since we like listening to music while riding.

My trike "Roxy" sounds louder, runs way cooler, .... and we are happy for a very low cost. We now have over 22k miles on our trike and get 36-38 mpg. It keeps running better with more miles on it!!!

The stock Rushmore A/C flows plenty of air for a normal rider. No issues when it rains (no rain cover required for an open element).

If your end goal is to hot rod the trike .... then don't go my route.

If you just want a more comfortable ride with a bit more pep ... then consider my cheap options .... which work great for us.

Enjoy the ride!

Bob

 

[TGCarol]

2014 - We rode for over 1 year and 10K+ miles on a stock system. We got used to the heat.

Finally I de-catted the stock head pipes (you can purchase from www.wildpigpipes.com for a very reasonable cost.).
I use Nightrider FL-Vied-10 fuel enrichers on my oxygen sensor lines. (set at 62.5%)
I still have the stock mufflers since we like listening to music while riding.

My trike "Roxy" sounds louder, runs way cooler, .... and we are happy for a very low cost. We now have over 22k miles on our trike and get 36-38 mpg. It keeps running better with more miles on it!!!

The stock Rushmore A/C flows plenty of air for a normal rider. No issues when it rains (no rain cover required for an open element).

If your end goal is to hot rod the trike .... then don't go my route.

If you just want a more comfortable ride with a bit more pep ... then consider my cheap options .... which work great for us.

Enjoy the ride!

Bob

View attachment 38493

Hi Bob,

Nope, no hot rodding here . I wasn't looking to decat. I know it helps with the heat but I don't think my dealer would install decatted head pipes and still leave me with my warrantee.

Someone recomended the FL-Vied-10 fuel enrichers to me before. They sound like a simple solution to the whole tuner choice.

I'm hoping to stay simple and within the rules of my warrantee.

 

[HDB0B]

Hi Bob,

Nope, no hot rodding here . I wasn't looking to decat. I know it helps with the heat but I don't think my dealer would install decatted head pipes and still leave me with my warrantee.

Someone recomended the FL-Vied-10 fuel enrichers to me before. They sound like a simple solution to the whole tuner choice.

I'm hoping to stay simple and within the rules of my warrantee.

Dealers around me put aftermarket non-catted pipes on all the time and no warranty problems. Vance & Hines Power Duals (2 into 1 into 2) are a popular choice along with Stage 1 download.

I'm out of warranty now and will do as I please.

Bob

 

[Gorilla]

Carol I am going to assume (usually a bad idea) that your dealer is Ocala HD. MY second guess would be Gator in Leesberg. Anyway your best bet is to consult with them because they are going to be doing the work. Like you stated you do not want issues with your warrantee. If the dealer does the work they stand behind it.

The area you are dealing with has A LOT of personal taste involved with it. The reality of the stock air flows enough air for the riding that most of us do. That being said we like to change it to our personal tastes. The stage one A/C will help when you have your RPMs get above the 3500 range. How often do you ride your TRI at that RPM? Sometimes for short duration when you are getting it on. So most of us (me included) have the stage one A/C to be able to say that. The SE A/C is a nice one. Should work very well for you.

The slip ons again very personal because what I like in sound out of my slip ons will NOT be the same as you like. Get with your dealer see if they can let you hear as many slip ons as possible that they recommend. Ask them their opinion about the baffle size and how it effects the low end torque. On a trike you need all the low end torque you can get. You will get the most satisfaction on your muffler change because the sound will please you. Just the slip ons should not require a tune. Add the air cleaner then you will have to consider the tune.

As far as the tune. Again the dealer is your best advisor. They know what they work best with. The SE tuner does its job and a simple Stage 1 can be loaded without going through a dyno run by the HD dealer. They have pre set downloads for the simple stuff.

Good Luck and enjoy

 

[TGCarol]

Dealers around me put aftermarket non-catted pipes on all the time and no warranty problems. Vance & Hines Power Duals (2 into 1 into 2) are a popular choice along with Stage 1 download.

I'm out of warranty now and will do as I please.

Bob

Oh OK. That really helps. Thanks. I guess I need to chat with the dealer and see what's up.

- - - Updated - - -

Carol I am going to assume (usually a bad idea) that your dealer is Ocala HD. MY second guess would be Gator in Leesberg. Anyway your best bet is to consult with them because they are going to be doing the work. Like you stated you do not want issues with your warrantee. If the dealer does the work they stand behind it.

The area you are dealing with has A LOT of personal taste involved with it. The reality of the stock air flows enough air for the riding that most of us do. That being said we like to change it to our personal tastes. The stage one A/C will help when you have your RPMs get above the 3500 range. How often do you ride your TRI at that RPM? Sometimes for short duration when you are getting it on. So most of us (me included) have the stage one A/C to be able to say that. The SE A/C is a nice one. Should work very well for you.

The slip ons again very personal because what I like in sound out of my slip ons will NOT be the same as you like. Get with your dealer see if they can let you hear as many slip ons as possible that they recommend. Ask them their opinion about the baffle size and how it effects the low end torque. On a trike you need all the low end torque you can get. You will get the most satisfaction on your muffler change because the sound will please you. Just the slip ons should not require a tune. Add the air cleaner then you will have to consider the tune.

As far as the tune. Again the dealer is your best advisor. They know what they work best with. The SE tuner does its job and a simple Stage 1 can be loaded without going through a dyno run by the HD dealer. They have pre set downloads for the simple stuff.

Good Luck and enjoy

Thanks Gorilla. I guess I was getting ahead of myself and need to go chat with my dealer. It is Warhorse Harley (used to be Ocala Harley).

 

[403calgary]

Had stage one done and thought it was good then this year had it dyno tuned and now it's great. 5 more mild to gallon and way more jump

 

[DK Custom Products]

OK....I know what you're thinking. "Oh no! Not another Stage 1 thread!" I hope that this one will be a little different than previous ones. I would like to thank in advance any of you knowledgable trikers out there for your valuable advice. I truly appreciate it.

I plan to upgrade my 2016 Triglide to Stage 1. I love my husband and do not want to give him a sticker shock heart attack, so I am going to do this in stages. My plan for this thread is an ongoing conversation (with pics) about a newbie like myself asking questions and posting about each stage as it is completed. My father always told me "There are no stupid questions" but I am sure that some of the questions I have will have very obvious answers to all of you seasoned bikers and trikers out there. Please be gentle :xzqxz:. I hope that other complete newbies who have the same questions will get some value out of this thread, not just myself.

My reasons for doing this upgrade are to increase the longevity of my engine. We all know Triglides are expensive and I need this one to last as long as possible with less heat damage. Performance is icing on the cake for me. Maybe one day I will be looking into getting a Dyno tune, oil coolers and cat removal done but for now, my choices will be basic.

Obviously the end goal is a Stage 1 Triglide. I am going to be relying on my local dealer to perform the installations since I have extremely limited knowledge, no wrenching skill and limited tools. My questions will mostly be about the specific parts that I choose, their pros and cons, and the differences between them both in quality and performance.

So......here goes....

Most of the searches I have done define a Stage 1 upgrade as a free flowing air cleaner, less restrictive exhaust and some sort of fuel management device.
I guess my first question would be where do I start? Is it better to begin with the air cleaner or the slip ons? At what point does the fuel management device come into play, with the air cleaner or the slip ons? Will the Harley "remapping" do for a short time?

Thank you again and I apologize for the long post.

Hi Carol,

I highlighted the two things that seem to be the priorities driving you on a Stage I upgrade.

You can read a more complete explanation of a Stage I upgrade at this LINK.

The short of it is:

Free flowing air cleaner
Free flowing exhaust
Fuel management

Two important things on the air cleaner-

#1 There is a popular myth that the Rushmore air cleaner is not restrictive and that by getting an aftermarket one there is no significant gain. See the chart below, with a good free flowing A/C you do get a significant gain in power & efficiency. This means a cooler running, longer lasting, better MPG engine.

#2 Whatever air cleaner you get, make sure it has an External Breather System. One of the reasons the engine runs hot is that stock, and many aftermarket, air cleaners feed the hot, oily, oxygen depleted air from the crankcase back into the engine. This seriously reduces efficiency, increasing heat and decreasing engine longevity.

Free flowing exhaust- whichever slip-ons you get, they will be better than stock. Find some that you like the look and sound of. If you notice a drop in power, or just want more power/efficiency, put some Thunder Torque Inserts in them.

Fuel Management- For the best tune you can spend $400 all the way up to $1000 to get every bit of possible power. I personally like the Power Vision best...around $500.

However, for reduction in sticker shock, and to meet your goals of engine longevity, the FL-ViED-10 do a great job at changing the Too Lean EPA tune to one where there is no damage being done to the engine due to a too lean tune.

You can read more on the FL-ViED-10's at this LINK.

Here is a LINK regarding heat and engine longevity that you may find interesting.


Kevin

 

[TGCarol]

Thank you Kevin for all this helpful info. :clapping:

I have a question. How do I know if an air cleaner has an external breather system? The one I'm considering (Screaming Eagle High Flow Air Cleaner) is listed on the HD website as including air cleaner, back plate, breather and all hardware. Is this breather the external breather system that you are referring to?

Thanks for your time.

- - - Updated - - -

Had stage one done and thought it was good then this year had it dyno tuned and now it's great. 5 more mild to gallon and way more jump

Yes. I'll probably have mine Dyno tuned at some point.

 

[DK Custom Products]

Thank you Kevin for all this helpful info. :clapping:

I have a question. How do I know if an air cleaner has an external breather system? The one I'm considering (Screaming Eagle High Flow Air Cleaner) is listed on the HD website as including air cleaner, back plate, breather and all hardware. Is this breather the external breather system that you are referring to?

Thanks for your time.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes. I'll probably have mine Dyno tuned at some point.

Most air cleaners do not have an External Breather System, including all the SE A/C's. Almost all of our Air Cleaners do come with an EBS. You can see them HERE.

If you do get one without and EBS, then you can add an EBS to them. You can see those HERE. If you are not sure which EBS to use on any particular A/C, let us know which A/C you have and we can direct you to which EBS will work with it.

Kevin

 

[TGCarol]

I am learning so much. Thanks to all.

I have eave a couple more questions Kevin. I hope I'm not being too much of a pain :gah: The A/C I want is SE High Flow A/C part # 29400234. Which of your external breathers would work with it? I also want to keep my A/C cover. Will the breather system cause the cover to stick out any further? I really like the chrome catch cans on some of those breathers ThumbUp

 

[DK Custom Products]

I am learning so much. Thanks to all.

I have eave a couple more questions Kevin. I hope I'm not being too much of a pain :gah: The A/C I want is SE High Flow A/C part # 29400234. Which of your external breathers would work with it? I also want to keep my A/C cover. Will the breather system cause the cover to stick out any further? I really like the chrome catch cans on some of those breathers ThumbUp

Hi Carol,

No pain, ask away!

Either of the EBS at the following two links will work with that Air Cleaner. The EBS will not affect the cover/how far the cover sticks out at all.

The External Breather Systems in the links below come with a breather filter, but you can replace that with a chrome catch can if you'd like.

http://dkcustomproducts.com/DIY-Hea...ring-Softail-Dyna-Sportster-DK-DIY-BH-BRT.htm

http://dkcustomproducts.com/DIY-Hea...tainless-Steel-Hose-Harley-DK-DIY-SSH-BRT.htm

If you are concerned with how far out the A/C cover sticks, you can get this A/C system which will not stick out nearly as far as the SE A/C, and it already has an EBS as part of it.

http://dkcustomproducts.com/Complet...a-Softail-Touring-Rushmore-DK-AC606-NK-TC.htm

It is specifically made to use the stock Rushmore cover.

Kevin

 

[TGCarol]

Thanks again Kevin.

I sent end you a PM.

 

[GARYD]

I know that to own a Harley you MUST change the A/C and the sound of the exhaust - it's the law. You will be made fun of if you don't.

I've always stayed with a stock system and never had an engine problem. The longest I've owned a Harley is 10 years. How long do you plan to keep your bike?? I don't know how much longer an engine will last by modifying it. I don't think anyone knows, but it sounds good.

The money I've saved I used for safety and comfort items = like strobe brake lites, air adjustable seat, floorboard extenders to reduce the felt engine heat, heated grips, tour pac tether backup chain, Capt. Itch "Crotch Cooler", etc. No more "Bling" for me.

I've ridden through the Arizona/NewMexico deserts and last week in Sturgis in 100* temps = no problems - and I even use 87 octane gas.

I figure Harley's very knowledgeable engineers know what they're doing and would not design a bike that self destructs in 10 to 15 years, which is longer then the most people own a bike. Of course there are exception to the rule.
It's your bike, you can do whatever you want to it. I'm just giving you the other side of the coin.

JMHO

 

[TGCarol]

Hi Gary :wave4:. Thanks for your reply ThumbUp. That's the beauty of a Harley isn't it. There are so many choices. I can choose to do everything or nothing at all. A Harley can be made into the perfect bike for almost everyone. And for some, it's perfect just the way it is.

I just love love that about Harleys .

 

[BOXX3R]

That's the beauty of a Harley isn't it. There are so many choices. I can choose to do everything or nothing at all. A Harley can be made into the perfect bike for almost everyone. And for some, it's perfect just the way it is.

I just love love that about Harleys .

This is why I chose a Harley Davidson Tri-Glide over a Can AM RT. The aftermarket parts catalog for a Can AM is..........:Shrug: is there any??? But the various catalog(s) for Harley parts are thick as phone books, and there are lots of them. Then there is the vast assortment of go fast or go chrome bolt on goodies direct from Harley. I like to personalize my rides and with Harley we can make our bikes as individual and unique as our wallets are deep.

 

[TGCarol]

Air Cleaner purchased

Wow. There were so many questions but I finally decided on my Stage 1 A/C. I went with the Outlaw 606 with an External Breather System. Some of the things I learned during this decision were:-

1. There are so many to choose from. The first step should be to narrow the search down to a couple and then decide from there.

2. Consider which A/C cover you want to go with and make sure the A/C will fit inside it. Some air cleaners come with their own covers so the OEM one can be changed out for something different.

3. Consider how much further out the A/C cover will sit after the new system is installed. Will it be in the way while riding?

4. Consider getting an External Breather System so that hot, oily air does not get routed back into the engine anymore. There are a few choices to be made here too.

I'm sure there is more but these points are what comes to mind.

I would like to send a Huge shout out to Kevin at DK Customs. He was so patient and kind to answer a million PMs and even called me to make sure I was getting the right system for me. Great customer service. Thanks again Kevin. :clapping:

I should receive my A/C in a few days. When I get it I will call and make an appointment at my dealer to get it installed. I will update this thread with how that goes.

First step done.